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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!!

X-Mark_Newman
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Nov 14, 2002, 12:41 PM

Post #1 of 24 (2438 views)
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Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!!	Can't Post

OK. after reading some posts on us vs them (pc vs mac) I have to say my thing. Get over it!!!!
both of you.
I've use both. I work on a PC at home and teach on a mac at college. You know what? They both have problems.
Is one better than the other? NO. Not at all. In anything! They are all fast, they all run kick butt software. They all are excellent for editing. They all (YES ALL!!!!) crash just as often as the other one.
I know people who use macs alot and get on a pc and cant figure squat out, but I also know pc people who get on a mac and cant figure anything out. HMMMMM so what do we conclude?
that either both are complete idiots or they both are use to one platform and not the other.
I would go for the latter.
Me? what do I prefer? what ever works and whatever I can afford. I personally would like to have both because I love Vegas Video and I would like to have DVD Studio Pro.
So all this hoopla about one being better than the other is nothing more than, "I'm more used to this than that, and since i dont know yours, it sucks."
And before someone gets all bent-out-of-shape and starts ranting and raving that this will do that so much better than them. Prove it. And I hate hearing that "this" is the industry standard. There is no standard. Everybody uses something different. The only industry standard is that it has a monitor, cpu, and a keyboard and mouse. period.
thanks for your time.
Im stepping off my soapbox now
have a nice day :)
mark

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 2:17 PM

Post #2 of 24 (2438 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!!	Can't Post

"The only industry standard is that it has a monitor, cpu, and a keyboard and mouse. period."
This is the only point I'm going to pick on, though I could do more. :)
You obviously have no idea how the industry works kiddo. Have you ever perused an RFC before? Have you ever written one for submission? Do you know what an RFC is?!? Now go hit google.
I agree on a couple things you said however the bottom line is this: If it doesn't interface with the rest of the world properly (and doesn't plan to) it's a dead-end. Apple's OWN motto is 'THINK DIFFERENT' - they clearly admit their bass-ackwards strategy (actually, Apple thought THEY could set the standard back then which would have worked without looking as silly, HOWEVER, if everyone bought into the idea of 'thinking different' over the years then 95% of the computing world today would be thinking the SAME! LOL!!!)
Apple is way-cool marketing, period. It's the only reason they're alive today. Marketing geniuses. Much like Volkswagon (crap that's sold with clever marketing to zine readers and tv watchers...most owners have never turned a wrench in their life).
Once photoshop et all was available on the pc there was no real compelling reason to buy a mac anymore, and some very compelling reasons to buy a pc. Hence today you have >95% pc market penetration because of OPEN STANDARDS and not CLOSED ELITIST CLUBS. Apple is self-contadictory at best while the numbers speak very clearly for themselves in terms of "what's better".
-Thom
P.S. Would you buy, say, a tool-set that was marketed under the motto 'think different' while the 1/2" sockets wouldn't fit a 1/2" bolt?!? Even if the tools look cool, even if they're built stronger, even if you consider yourself 'different' or 'above the rest' this tool set is f-n USELESS if it doesn't fit the industry standard bolts! But if you're the typical mac owner you would probably make the purchase anyhow, then go out and buy an Audi TT because you think it looks cool too. lol

: OK. after reading some posts on us vs them (pc vs mac) I have to say my thing. Get over it!!!!
: both of you.
: I've use both. I work on a PC at home and teach on a mac at college. You know what? They both have problems.
: Is one better than the other? NO. Not at all. In anything! They are all fast, they all run kick butt software. They all are excellent for editing. They all (YES ALL!!!!) crash just as often as the other one.
: I know people who use macs alot and get on a pc and cant figure squat out, but I also know pc people who get on a mac and cant figure anything out. HMMMMM so what do we conclude?
: that either both are complete idiots or they both are use to one platform and not the other.
: I would go for the latter.
: Me? what do I prefer? what ever works and whatever I can afford. I personally would like to have both because I love Vegas Video and I would like to have DVD Studio Pro.
: So all this hoopla about one being better than the other is nothing more than, "I'm more used to this than that, and since i dont know yours, it sucks."
: And before someone gets all bent-out-of-shape and starts ranting and raving that this will do that so much better than them. Prove it. And I hate hearing that "this" is the industry standard. There is no standard. Everybody uses something different. The only industry standard is that it has a monitor, cpu, and a keyboard and mouse. period.
: thanks for your time.
: Im stepping off my soapbox now
: have a nice day :)
: mark

X-Rick_K
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Nov 14, 2002, 2:36 PM

Post #3 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

: P.S. Would you buy, say, a tool-set that was marketed under the motto 'think different' while the 1/2" sockets wouldn't fit a 1/2" bolt?!? Even if the tools look cool, even if they're built stronger, even if you consider yourself 'different' or 'above the rest' this tool set is f-n USELESS if it doesn't fit the industry standard bolts!

I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
LOL!

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 2:44 PM

Post #4 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

There's no doubt in my mind that you would. And when you went through all the trouble and expense getting your 'different' toolset and your 'different' bolts you'd realize that it's very difficult (and expensive) to tap the engine heads to accept your 'different' threads. And even if you DID get that far you'd be left with an engine head that was impossible for 95% of the other mechanics in the world to work on it in the future.
And in the end the only happy person is YOU while the customer and his engine are far from it. It's all about you, baby.
The pro-mac mentality makes me laugh and sick at the same time. Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can.

: I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
: LOL!

X-Rick_K
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Nov 14, 2002, 3:10 PM

Post #5 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

The bolts have the same threads!! The only difference is the head. So, they work fine in the engine. Now about the part with 95% of the other machanics being able to work on this engine in the future - How does that relate to making videos? I'm confused now.. Metaphorically, what is the engine? Is that my video?
All in good fun,
Rick

: There's no doubt in my mind that you would. And when you went through all the trouble and expense getting your 'different' toolset and your 'different' bolts you'd realize that it's very difficult (and expensive) to tap the engine heads to accept your 'different' threads. And even if you DID get that far you'd be left with an engine head that was impossible for 95% of the other mechanics in the world to work on it in the future.
: And in the end the only happy person is YOU while the customer and his engine are far from it. It's all about you, baby.
: The pro-mac mentality makes me laugh and sick at the same time. Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can.

: : I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
: : LOL!

X-James_S
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Nov 14, 2002, 3:10 PM

Post #6 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can."
And vice versa!

X-Peter
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Nov 14, 2002, 3:26 PM

Post #7 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

If the application is the bolt, the OS is the socket, and the video is the engine - could you say that the client is the spark plug?
just a thought - I like the way this thread is going!
peter

: The bolts have the same threads!! The only difference is the head. So, they work fine in the engine. Now about the part with 95% of the other machanics being able to work on this engine in the future - How does that relate to making videos? I'm confused now.. Metaphorically, what is the engine? Is that my video?
: All in good fun,
: Rick
:
: : There's no doubt in my mind that you would. And when you went through all the trouble and expense getting your 'different' toolset and your 'different' bolts you'd realize that it's very difficult (and expensive) to tap the engine heads to accept your 'different' threads. And even if you DID get that far you'd be left with an engine head that was impossible for 95% of the other mechanics in the world to work on it in the future.
: : And in the end the only happy person is YOU while the customer and his engine are far from it. It's all about you, baby.
: : The pro-mac mentality makes me laugh and sick at the same time. Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can.

:
: : : I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
: : : LOL!

X-videofred
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Nov 14, 2002, 3:29 PM

Post #8 of 24 (2437 views)
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This all started because... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Back in the day DOS machines (the parent of all PCs today) had the 8.3 restriction on filenames. You had to name your docs ABCDEFGH.123 or the machine wouldn't recognize it - not to mention having to understand DOS folder and file structures. On a Mac you could name the file any damn thing you wanted. Designers wanted to be able to "concentrate on design, not computers" and as such loved their macs. As was mentioned above, Adobe Photoshop was originally a Mac program. That too contributed to the 'artsy' nature of Macs. Macs were always plug and play. PCs used to require huge amounts of work to install peripherals. This too contributed to putting macs in the hands of those that didn't want to be bothered configuring the tool. They just wanted to use it.
Today, Macs and PCs do the same thing. RFCs aside, you can do just about everything you can to on a PC on a Mac and vice-versa. It's still the "aura" of working on a machine perceived to be designed for artists vs. a machine designed for office workers. In reality, there is no real upside to one over the other unless you have to meet some set of requirements. You're videographers. No bride/client is ever going to insist you work on a PC.

X-Judy_Handley
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Nov 14, 2002, 3:40 PM

Post #9 of 24 (2437 views)
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Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I know I should be understanding all this talk of nuts and bolts but.....I don't want to change my own tires, oil or anything else.
judy
: If the application is the bolt, the OS is the socket, and the video is the engine - could you say that the client is the spark plug?
: just a thought - I like the way this thread is going!
: peter
:
: : The bolts have the same threads!! The only difference is the head. So, they work fine in the engine. Now about the part with 95% of the other machanics being able to work on this engine in the future - How does that relate to making videos? I'm confused now.. Metaphorically, what is the engine? Is that my video?
: : All in good fun,
: : Rick
: :
: : : There's no doubt in my mind that you would. And when you went through all the trouble and expense getting your 'different' toolset and your 'different' bolts you'd realize that it's very difficult (and expensive) to tap the engine heads to accept your 'different' threads. And even if you DID get that far you'd be left with an engine head that was impossible for 95% of the other mechanics in the world to work on it in the future.
: : : And in the end the only happy person is YOU while the customer and his engine are far from it. It's all about you, baby.
: : : The pro-mac mentality makes me laugh and sick at the same time. Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can.
:
: :
: : : : I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
: : : : LOL!

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 4:43 PM

Post #10 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

And that's fine, Judy. Really. But you MUST agree that someone who doesn't change their own tires and dump their own oil (2 insanely easy tasks by the way) should never be commenting to others about how much 'better' any given automobile is. They simply don't know the mechanics. Probably don't even know what type of oil to put in, or what volume. Same thing goes for computers, however it seems these mac types who've never done anything but hit a power switch and click their dumbed-down mouse (two buttons is too complicated, dontchaknow) should not be recommending computer platforms to others...they have no clue what they're talking about. The funny thing is they THINK they do because a fish doesn't know it lives in a wet world.
And to the chap who assumes I don't know the dumbed-down side of computing (macs) you can go get stuffed...I've owned a couple macs over the years starting with the IIe. Now THERE'S a real piece of work for ya! I even wasted part of my teenage years writing a defender-type game for the mac...which in the end sucked, but anyway. :)

I don't want to change my own tires, oil or anything else.
: judy
: : If the application is the bolt, the OS is the socket, and the video is the engine - could you say that the client is the spark plug?
: : just a thought - I like the way this thread is going!
: : peter
: :
: : : The bolts have the same threads!! The only difference is the head. So, they work fine in the engine. Now about the part with 95% of the other machanics being able to work on this engine in the future - How does that relate to making videos? I'm confused now.. Metaphorically, what is the engine? Is that my video?
: : : All in good fun,
: : : Rick
: : :
: : : : There's no doubt in my mind that you would. And when you went through all the trouble and expense getting your 'different' toolset and your 'different' bolts you'd realize that it's very difficult (and expensive) to tap the engine heads to accept your 'different' threads. And even if you DID get that far you'd be left with an engine head that was impossible for 95% of the other mechanics in the world to work on it in the future.
: : : : And in the end the only happy person is YOU while the customer and his engine are far from it. It's all about you, baby.
: : : : The pro-mac mentality makes me laugh and sick at the same time. Kinda like having to vomit while sitting on the can.
: :
: : :
: : : : : I would buy the "different" tool set... Then I would buy different bolts, because my only option for the industry standard bolts is a crappy tool set that always breaks!
: : : : : LOL!

X-Edward
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Nov 14, 2002, 4:47 PM

Post #11 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

The ][e WASN'T a Mac! It WAS made by Apple before they started making the Mac and was in nearly every grade/high school in the country.

: And to the chap who assumes I don't know the dumbed-down side of computing (macs) you can go get stuffed...I've owned a couple macs over the years starting with the IIe. Now THERE'S a real piece of work for ya! I even wasted part of my teenage years writing a defender-type game for the mac...which in the end sucked, but anyway. :)

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 4:53 PM

Post #12 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, now we've degraded to splitting hairs. If that's the only thing you can think of to rebut you're lame, guy.
And our high school was known across Canada for being way ahead of its time in terms of our computer room (I lived in an uppidy-affluent town) and we never had one Apple (thank gawd)...just Commodore Pets and 64s. Perhaps after I was out they got some Apples, I don't know.

: The ][e WASN'T a Mac! It WAS made by Apple before they started making the Mac and was in nearly every grade/high school in the country.
:
: : And to the chap who assumes I don't know the dumbed-down side of computing (macs) you can go get stuffed...I've owned a couple macs over the years starting with the IIe. Now THERE'S a real piece of work for ya! I even wasted part of my teenage years writing a defender-type game for the mac...which in the end sucked, but anyway. :)

X-Scott
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:07 PM

Post #13 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think different. I love my Macs and wouldn't own anything different to work on, especially for video. I have heard too many horror stories about the Wintel side. In the end, the client has no idea what their video was cut on, and it really doesn't matter as long as they are happy, and you gets paid. All about the Bling Bling!

X-Rick_K
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:23 PM

Post #14 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thom,
I agree. I think the way that Apple is marketing the Mac SUCKS! I grew up hating Macs and APPLE. I contended that these people were just too dumb to use a PC. So I have owned many PC's of my own, starting back on the PS/2... I also wrote some pretty crappy programs for the Apple IIe's and commodore 64's.
However, when I started doing video on several different Windows systems, I ran into many problems. The Mac has been very reliable. I am sure there are many windows systems that are reliable too. I am not contending that Macs are better than PC's.
I just got tired of working on PC's. My previous job was as a system adminstrator of a company that used Windows NT systems. I was just drained from always working on PC's. I never have to work on my Mac. It just works. I could build a PC in my sleep. I am sure there are some Mac users who haven't had the joy of having to rip apart their computer to make it work, but it's pretty stereotypical of you to assume that we all "have no clue what we're talking about".
I am not a person who is whole-heartedly "Pro-Mac", but I am against people who put down a tool that is amazingly great for NLE!

Rick
P.S. I hate my one-button mouse.

X-sal
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:23 PM

Post #15 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Its ironic to me, that the same person who want the pc vs mac disussion to end, posts a pc vs mac discussion.
I agree, they both their strengths along with their weaknesses. That is why everyone should learn to use both and pick the right tool for the job. To dedicate yourself to just one is really dumb in my opinion. enjoy the best of both worlds people and quit being so protective about your platform. After all its not about what you use, its about what you can do with it.
: OK. after reading some posts on us vs them (pc vs mac) I have to say my thing. Get over it!!!!
: both of you.
: I've use both. I work on a PC at home and teach on a mac at college. You know what? They both have problems.
: Is one better than the other? NO. Not at all. In anything! They are all fast, they all run kick butt software. They all are excellent for editing. They all (YES ALL!!!!) crash just as often as the other one.
: I know people who use macs alot and get on a pc and cant figure squat out, but I also know pc people who get on a mac and cant figure anything out. HMMMMM so what do we conclude?
: that either both are complete idiots or they both are use to one platform and not the other.
: I would go for the latter.
: Me? what do I prefer? what ever works and whatever I can afford. I personally would like to have both because I love Vegas Video and I would like to have DVD Studio Pro.
: So all this hoopla about one being better than the other is nothing more than, "I'm more used to this than that, and since i dont know yours, it sucks."
: And before someone gets all bent-out-of-shape and starts ranting and raving that this will do that so much better than them. Prove it. And I hate hearing that "this" is the industry standard. There is no standard. Everybody uses something different. The only industry standard is that it has a monitor, cpu, and a keyboard and mouse. period.
: thanks for your time.
: Im stepping off my soapbox now
: have a nice day :)
: mark

X-Edward
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:27 PM

Post #16 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

No splitting hairs about it. The two are TOTALLY different machines. ][ series was text based, Mac was graphics based. With the ][gs a graphics interface and mouse was added (][e didn't even have a mouse). I owned a ][+ and a ][gs.
Plus, I should have specified US on the schools. Don't know about Canada.
While I prefer PC's, I cannot say that Macs are bad. I just don't use them.
: Ok, now we've degraded to splitting hairs. If that's the only thing you can think of to rebut you're lame, guy.

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:52 PM

Post #17 of 24 (2438 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I have heard too many horror stories about the Wintel side."
Now do you think it would be fair of me to say, "I wouldn't buy a Mac because of what I've HEARD?". You're just another (perfect) example from the point I was making, that's all. Thanks MacDude.
"the client has no idea what their video was cut on"
Well, err, unless you decide to venture out of your NLE to use your computer for more than just cuttin' film (lol) and publish content! Quicktime just totally sucks, at least for 95% of the world's computer owners. And mac-made websites just don't work properly for the rest of the world, but if they do it's because of extra time spent by at least an order of magnitude on part of the webdev gal. Pls believe me, I've done it many times...but not no more.
If we agree that one can accomplish the same tasks using either platform then WHY THE HECK would any intelligent human choose the incompatible and more expensive one...with relatively no 3rd party support, to boot?!? The benefits do not outweigh the drawbacks, not in this case.

: I think different. I love my Macs and wouldn't own anything different to work on, especially for video. I have heard too many horror stories about the Wintel side. In the end, the client has no idea what their video was cut on, and it really doesn't matter as long as they are happy, and you gets paid. All about the Bling Bling!

X-MIDIMan
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Nov 14, 2002, 5:58 PM

Post #18 of 24 (2438 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Huh???
> Apple is way-cool marketing, period. It's the only reason they're alive today. Marketing geniuses. Much like Volkswagon (crap that's sold with clever marketing to zine readers and tv watchers...most owners have never turned a wrench in their life).
It�s not the marketing that has proven the critics like you wrong year after year. It is the innovative design of Apple�s products. Their desktop and laptop systems push the envelope and that is why Business Week wrote that Apple has �reclaimed the innovation lead.� The iMac is a finalist in the Desktop PC category of PC Magazine�s Awards for Technical Excellence. Even Dell Computers have started selling Apple�s iPod on their online store. Why? Because Apple makes the most innovative products on the market. Where else can you find a laptop with a built-in DVD-R drive?
> Once photoshop et all was available on the pc there was no real compelling reason to buy a mac anymore, and some very compelling reasons to buy a pc. Hence today you have >95% pc market penetration because of OPEN STANDARDS and not CLOSED ELITIST CLUBS. Apple is self-contadictory at best while the numbers speak very clearly for themselves in terms of "what's better".
The numbers you refer to don�t necessarily speak for themselves. Macs have never held any kind of lead in the business arena. It wasn�t until recently that Apple even had any kind of a product that could compete in the business market. They have traditionally led in the creative and educational markets. While their market share has eroded over the last few years, you can�t dispute that Macs are highly regarded in those areas. Only 2 computer manufacturers are on target to post profits for this fiscal year � Apple and Dell. And Apple has no debt at all which gives them the strongest balance sheet of any computer maker� period.
As for open standards, I think you�re confused. Apple�s latest operating system is based on the most stable business operating system in use today � UNIX. OSX has many businesses rethinking their current strategies with Microsoft, especially in view of their new licensing strategy. While I don�t think the Mac will ever achieve 90%+ market penetration, I don�t see Microsoft�s chokehold on the market continuing either. And if you think Microsoft has open standards, think again. They purposely created their own standards to force the adoption of their products. Don�t believe me? Read the text of the anti-trust suit against Microsoft.
If you open up a Mac, you�ll see many industry standards implemented: ATA hard drives, DDR RAM, 802.11b wireless networking, gigabit ethernet. You can walk into any PC store and order many components that can be plugged right into your Mac.
I think Apple�s biggest downfall was the poor corporate leadership in the 90s. By 1996, everyone was sounding the death knell for Apple. They were reporting hundreds of millions of dollars of losses each quarter, and there was nothing on the horizon that looked like it could save the company. A lot of developers dropped Apple like rats jumping off a sinking ship. It wasn�t until the return of Steve Jobs that Apple remembered how to innovate. By then, many shops had already written off Apple and begun looking for Wintel solutions.
>P.S. Would you buy, say, a tool-set that was marketed under the motto 'think different' while the 1/2" sockets wouldn't fit a 1/2" bolt?!? Even if the tools look cool, even if they're built stronger, even if you consider yourself 'different' or 'above the rest' this tool set is f-n USELESS if it doesn't fit the industry standard bolts! But if you're the typical mac owner you would probably make the purchase anyhow, then go out and buy an Audi TT because you think it looks cool too. lol
Your analogy is creative, but doesn�t really apply in this context. I�m assuming you are referring to the video industry when you speak of industry standards. I�ve never had a problem using my Apple editing tools to create VHS, DVD, or any other video format. Likewise, many of my associates have no difficulty creating the same products using their Windows based systems. I think the original point of this post was that the Mac versus PC argument is pointless because everyone uses the tools they are most accustomed to. If you want to use a PC, more power to you. I chose the Mac platform because it does what I need it to do with the least amount of headaches. If I really want a challenge, I�ll go back to my old job of writing VB code for Windows NT and 2000.
Cheers,
MIDIMan

X-Thom
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Nov 14, 2002, 7:41 PM

Post #19 of 24 (2438 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Macs have never held any kind of lead in the business arena."
I didn't stipulate business arena. The sad facts are that pcs hold >95% of the WORLD market. Gawd only knows what the numbers are for corporate...98.5% maybe higher?
"If you open up a Mac, you�ll see many industry standards implemented...You can walk into any PC store and order many components that can be plugged right into your Mac."
I have, and I have. It further begs the question: "why buy a Mac if you are going to plug PC components into it anyway?!?" Same as these laughables that install PC emulators on their Mac so they can run Windows software. lol. I simply don't understand this logic (or lack thereof) and, I reckon, never will. And to be honest I WOULDN'T GIVE A DAMN if I didn't have to work with lame Mac output. But I do sometimes and everytime we have to go back and forth, back and forth trying to get things, SIMPLE THINGS, working on the pc which, let's face it, is all that really matters in a world full of pcs. I really hate Macs for this reason, and this reason only. It wastes our time which of course costs us money...and all for what??? Just so a few million can think different?!? Go ahead and think different if it really blows your skirt up...but work on the same page as everyone else please! THE TWO MACHINES CAN COMPLETE THE EXACT SAME TASKS SO WHY CONTINUE TO IMPOSE THE MAC INCOMPATIBILITY PROBLEMS ON THE REST OF THE WORLD? BUY A PC AS WELL and let the time-wasting happen at your end seeing as you are the one choosing to cause all the trouble...choosing to go against the grain. Then you can run everything through your pc just before you send it out to us and see first-hand what we have to endure when working with you folks.
Last statement before I go...whatever problems people have running their pcs do not even come close to the problems they will have trying to communicate with macintosh computers. And vice versa. The bottom line is this: in the computer world it's all about COMPATIBILITY, COMPATIBILITY, COMPATIBILITY...just like in real estate where it's LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. Without compatibility you have little, and without location you have little. But at least with bad location you don't cost other people money (especially if you have no friends/visitors)...you can't say the same about your beloved Macs, though. Those things cost >95% of the world major bucks every day. Peace out.

: Huh???
: > Apple is way-cool marketing, period. It's the only reason they're alive today. Marketing geniuses. Much like Volkswagon (crap that's sold with clever marketing to zine readers and tv watchers...most owners have never turned a wrench in their life).
: It�s not the marketing that has proven the critics like you wrong year after year. It is the innovative design of Apple�s products. Their desktop and laptop systems push the envelope and that is why Business Week wrote that Apple has �reclaimed the innovation lead.� The iMac is a finalist in the Desktop PC category of PC Magazine�s Awards for Technical Excellence. Even Dell Computers have started selling Apple�s iPod on their online store. Why? Because Apple makes the most innovative products on the market. Where else can you find a laptop with a built-in DVD-R drive?
: > Once photoshop et all was available on the pc there was no real compelling reason to buy a mac anymore, and some very compelling reasons to buy a pc. Hence today you have >95% pc market penetration because of OPEN STANDARDS and not CLOSED ELITIST CLUBS. Apple is self-contadictory at best while the numbers speak very clearly for themselves in terms of "what's better".
: The numbers you refer to don�t necessarily speak for themselves. Macs have never held any kind of lead in the business arena. It wasn�t until recently that Apple even had any kind of a product that could compete in the business market. They have traditionally led in the creative and educational markets. While their market share has eroded over the last few years, you can�t dispute that Macs are highly regarded in those areas. Only 2 computer manufacturers are on target to post profits for this fiscal year � Apple and Dell. And Apple has no debt at all which gives them the strongest balance sheet of any computer maker� period.
: As for open standards, I think you�re confused. Apple�s latest operating system is based on the most stable business operating system in use today � UNIX. OSX has many businesses rethinking their current strategies with Microsoft, especially in view of their new licensing strategy. While I don�t think the Mac will ever achieve 90%+ market penetration, I don�t see Microsoft�s chokehold on the market continuing either. And if you think Microsoft has open standards, think again. They purposely created their own standards to force the adoption of their products. Don�t believe me? Read the text of the anti-trust suit against Microsoft.
: If you open up a Mac, you�ll see many industry standards implemented: ATA hard drives, DDR RAM, 802.11b wireless networking, gigabit ethernet. You can walk into any PC store and order many components that can be plugged right into your Mac.
: I think Apple�s biggest downfall was the poor corporate leadership in the 90s. By 1996, everyone was sounding the death knell for Apple. They were reporting hundreds of millions of dollars of losses each quarter, and there was nothing on the horizon that looked like it could save the company. A lot of developers dropped Apple like rats jumping off a sinking ship. It wasn�t until the return of Steve Jobs that Apple remembered how to innovate. By then, many shops had already written off Apple and begun looking for Wintel solutions.
: >P.S. Would you buy, say, a tool-set that was marketed under the motto 'think different' while the 1/2" sockets wouldn't fit a 1/2" bolt?!? Even if the tools look cool, even if they're built stronger, even if you consider yourself 'different' or 'above the rest' this tool set is f-n USELESS if it doesn't fit the industry standard bolts! But if you're the typical mac owner you would probably make the purchase anyhow, then go out and buy an Audi TT because you think it looks cool too. lol
: Your analogy is creative, but doesn�t really apply in this context. I�m assuming you are referring to the video industry when you speak of industry standards. I�ve never had a problem using my Apple editing tools to create VHS, DVD, or any other video format. Likewise, many of my associates have no difficulty creating the same products using their Windows based systems. I think the original point of this post was that the Mac versus PC argument is pointless because everyone uses the tools they are most accustomed to. If you want to use a PC, more power to you. I chose the Mac platform because it does what I need it to do with the least amount of headaches. If I really want a challenge, I�ll go back to my old job of writing VB code for Windows NT and 2000.
: Cheers,
: MIDIMan

X-Scott_Brooks
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Nov 14, 2002, 9:08 PM

Post #20 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Mac vs. PC, lets end it!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Excellent post, but don't expect to change any minds. Some things are better left to just dry up. This thread is one of them.

X-Rick_K
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Nov 14, 2002, 10:15 PM

Post #21 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

You are right Thom. Wow!
I am switching back to PC's tonight!
Thanks for the wonderful insight.
Rick

X-Scott
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Nov 14, 2002, 11:21 PM

Post #22 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, all I want to do is drive..... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thom,
If you want to be with the other 95% of the computer world, go right ahead. As far as quictime goes, I can deliver media content for any platform. My machine can read and write windows files. I don't use my machine to play games either. It makes me money, and it works, day in, day out. No viruses, no messed up dll files and drivers. We recently hired an IT person at my regular job. She takes care of all the windows machines, every single day. We have 10 macs. She never has to lay a hand on one of them. We could debate this all night, but the fact is, you have your preference, I have mine - we both are making a living. Nuff said.

X-robert
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Nov 15, 2002, 1:42 AM

Post #23 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: take a chill pill buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;-)))))))) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Holy smoke...I read only half of your rant and stop because you need some serious help. It's nice to play the devil's advocate once in a while or to use this overly used term to "think outside of the box" or to be a non conformist. Without that Sir Isaac Newton would not of discovered gravity when the apple hit his head....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...get it APPLE...oh my word...(slight tears) god I'm good.
rob

X-robert
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Nov 15, 2002, 1:52 AM

Post #24 of 24 (2437 views)
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Re: Ah geez, Are you scared of the big MAC monster... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Man you got to get some help....
I was going to say more but i really should stop wasting my time 'cause you're just not worth it Thom...thumb

rob