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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
No videotaping during photo shoot????

X-Briody
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May 2, 2003, 4:06 PM

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No videotaping during photo shoot????	Can't Post

Hello,
I recently met with the photographer who is shooting the first wedding my wife and I are filming.
He is a nice guy and very skilled. His medium format work is outstanding.
But his contract with the bride states that there is to be no videotaping while he is taking photographs. I asked 'Why?'. He explained that he did not want couples to use a still from the video for thier wedding photos. I tried explaining that the resolution of a video frame is dwarfed by a medium format photo. There is absolutley no comparision in quality. I think my words fell on deaf ears.
He is waving the rule for us (I gave him a photoshop lesson in exchange), but is this the sort of thing that I can expect from photographers?
Mark

X-Joel_Peregrine
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May 2, 2003, 4:22 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot????	Can't Post

Hi Mark,
Until the local photographers got to know me I got this kind of stuff all the time. I just worked through the instances that this issue came up one at a time. I don't see it happen any more locally. I did a wedding last fall in Madison, which about an hour west of here, and the photographer asked right away, 'you're not going to make stills with that camera, are you?' I said no. But he'd never seen me or heard of me before so he was just protecting his business. Just make sure you let the photogs know that you have no interest in selling stills, and if you are easy to work with they'll back off. Call them ahead of the wedding and introduce yourself if the couple says that the photographer doesn't want you to shoot the photo session. If you're going to be in the business for a while photographers are going to be your best source of referrals, so suck it up be polite and courteous. Someday you'll be making more per event than they are...
Joel

: Hello,
: I recently met with the photographer who is shooting the first wedding my wife and I are filming.
: He is a nice guy and very skilled. His medium format work is outstanding.
: But his contract with the bride states that there is to be no videotaping while he is taking photographs. I asked 'Why?'. He explained that he did not want couples to use a still from the video for thier wedding photos. I tried explaining that the resolution of a video frame is dwarfed by a medium format photo. There is absolutley no comparision in quality. I think my words fell on deaf ears.
: He is waving the rule for us (I gave him a photoshop lesson in exchange), but is this the sort of thing that I can expect from photographers?
: Mark

X-Mark_Briody
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May 2, 2003, 4:32 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Joel!
Thats some good advice. I appreciate it.
Mark

X-Coleman
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May 2, 2003, 4:34 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I try and always shoot the photo shoots if possible since it's a great time to get the bride and groom together looking at each other lovingly. One time the photographer said no so I went right to the reception which actually was very relaxing. I laughed to myself because the photographer ended up geting there very late because he got lost. If he had just let me shot the photo shoot then I would have let him follow me...
Coleman

X-Brian_M
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May 2, 2003, 6:17 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

My wife and I found it easier to just avoid the photo shoot.
We tell the bride and groom that we head right to the reception after the receiving line and start filming the room during c@cktail hour. We explain to them that the photographer has limited time and that's when they get the majority of their shots. We also sell them on this by saying that they'll get to see all the things they may miss while taking photos on their video. Photographer's usually appreciate this and seem to be more cooperative with us for the remainder of the day.
Yes, we miss out on some good footage of the two of them for making montages but half the time it's not worth sticking around for.
You'll run into photographers with far worse attitudes than this guy but at least he was willing to compromise. You'll see some that respect what you do too and they can really help you out with referrals.
They need you to speak nicely about them as much as you need them.
Brian M
Video by Moak

X-Crystal
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May 2, 2003, 7:58 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Those photographers that are uncomfortable with me shooting are usually relaxed when I explain that I NEVER sell photos to my clients that a photographer set up. I also tell them that I would like to send them a copy of the footage when I am done so they can show their potential clients some clips of them at work. They usually love it. :)
: Hello,
: I recently met with the photographer who is shooting the first wedding my wife and I are filming.
: He is a nice guy and very skilled. His medium format work is outstanding.
: But his contract with the bride states that there is to be no videotaping while he is taking photographs. I asked 'Why?'. He explained that he did not want couples to use a still from the video for thier wedding photos. I tried explaining that the resolution of a video frame is dwarfed by a medium format photo. There is absolutley no comparision in quality. I think my words fell on deaf ears.
: He is waving the rule for us (I gave him a photoshop lesson in exchange), but is this the sort of thing that I can expect from photographers?
: Mark

X-Mike_C
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May 3, 2003, 12:27 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ive read a lot of threads about this, but Ive never witnessed it or had it happen to me. It seems pretty trivial. I could care less what the photographer is doing, and I am pretty sure they feel the same way about me. And I have never had a problem with them getting in my way, or me in their way.
Maybe Ive just not run into the paranoia nuts it seems are out there. On the other side of the coin, would anyone here care if a photographer was toting around a VX2000 shooting video. I sure don't. I get paid (in advance) to produce a product that my client has already seen a sample of, so they know what they are getting. Heck, I wouldnt care if they hired 2 videographers, as long as there was enough room for our tripods in the church.
Or maybe its just that I go 6'4" and about 240, so I dont get much crap from whiny photographers if I have run across them.

X-Colvin_Eccleston
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May 3, 2003, 2:18 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes I do mind when the stills photographer turns up unannounced with a camcorder too "cos he thought it was a good idea!" Sure, turn up and shoot for free, totally devalue my work and get in the way all day, I don't mind! (Sorry, I have got a killer migraine). After that episode, I put in a special clause about no other professional videos and amateurs have to give way to me.

X-Scott_B
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May 3, 2003, 3:07 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Brian ... I'm with you. I actually prefer not to shoot during the formals. I've never had a photographer deny me access, but to be honest it just wouldn't make much difference. About the only thing I ever want from the formals is a nice shot of the bride and groom posed together ... or maybe a spontaneous kiss. Other than that I could care less.
Cart me off to the reception and I'm a happy camper!
Scott B.

X-Coleman
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May 3, 2003, 8:26 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Or maybe its just that I go 6'4" and about 240"
Me too on both stats!
Coleman

X-Mike_C
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May 3, 2003, 8:28 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am just curious as to why you think someone else with a camcorder would "devalue YOUR work". Your work is what it is, just as other videographers have their own work. As long as you both have room to work, why does it matter??
Last night, I had a wedding with the "guest with the camcorder" and they had their little 3 watt light burning all night. I didnt get wound up about it, I was just mindful of where they were all night so they were fouling my shot. Minor inconvenience, but I think professionals should be able to work under any condition.

: Yes I do mind when the stills photographer turns up unannounced with a camcorder too "cos he thought it was a good idea!" Sure, turn up and shoot for free, totally devalue my work and get in the way all day, I don't mind! (Sorry, I have got a killer migraine). After that episode, I put in a special clause about no other professional videos and amateurs have to give way to me.

X-Mike_C
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May 3, 2003, 8:30 AM

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You tend to catch a lot less crap too I bet!
Honestly though, I have gained 30 pounds since October 2002, when I quit the old job and started doing weddings full time.
I guess hours and hours in front of the cpu with a guiness and a donut is not a good idea.

: "Or maybe its just that I go 6'4" and about 240"
: Me too on both stats!
: Coleman

X-Colvin_Eccleston
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May 3, 2003, 9:19 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Things that devalue one's work:
1. Get another "professional" to give away a similar service. See what effect that has on your prices.
2. Give a bunch of guests camcorders and see how long you can go between them pushing in front.
Of course, they can't shoot like me but they p*e in the soup by behaving like any one can do that and no way is it worth �X. All I ask is the courtesy they show the other professionals involved in the event; I am sure they have their rules about what is allowed.

X-Terry_T
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May 3, 2003, 10:28 AM

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Mark you've rec'd some excellent advice from others
here on the board.
I've been a full time wedding videographer for 9 years.
An infant to some.
But last week was the second time in 9 years that I ran
into "s@tan" photographer. (the forum censored the devil word)
Like Scott B. I only want to shoot a portion of the formals
to capture the bride and groom shots. Not even full length,
but details and closeups, then I"m outta there.
His contract, that the bride signed, stated NO VIDEO in the room even when he was setting up for pics.
It's a long story, but he blatantly TOLD Julian to his face,
"I HATE videographers." (he even looked like what s@tan would look like, it was creepy)
It's a very long story as to what happened the rest of the evening. My blood pressure went through the roof I"m sure.
Now we have in OUR contract that if we're shooting something
with our video cameras, the photog is not allowed to shoot it
until after we leave the room :-)
Just kidding :-)
But we will NEVER EVER WORK WITH LARRY WEAVER AGAIN.
EVER. (the font isn't big enough)
We sent him an e'mail telling him that he should re-state his
contract to say, "I HATE videographers and refuse to shoot a wedding if one is present."
That would save the videographer AND the bride great misery.
My 2 dang cents,
Terry T.

X-Scott_Brooks
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May 3, 2003, 11:20 AM

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Ok ... I'm guessing that was one, really intense reception to work.
The only thing I can think of is that some of them are horribly insecure about their work. I understand that people, usually relatives, can be a PIA when you're trying to shoot the formals. Many times I've seen the family's cameras setting off the photographer's strobes and screwing everything up ... but video? Come on ... that's just silly.
If you've got one videographer who makes your life miserable then do what many of us do ... check ahead of time to see if it's a church we'll work at or a photographer we're willing to work with. If not, then don't accept the job.
I've had a couple before that were a pain to work with, but nothing like Terry experienced.
Scott B.

X-Brian_M
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May 3, 2003, 12:10 PM

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Actual Quotes by Photographers [In reply to]	Can't Post

(These are actual quotes...I wish I made them up!)
-"We get $3,000 and up so stay out of our way and we'll all have a good time."
-"My assistant moved your tripod not me, but she'll be up in the center of the balcony and your wife can just shoot along side of her."
-"You can't shoot towards the DJ or the head table throughout the reception because you'll create a shadow from our pole flashes"
-(at a bridal show while talking to a bride) "There's the Moak's always sticking their bright lights in my face"
-"I have say over your light in my contract and if I want it turned off, I can go up to the bride and tell her I'm having you turn it off"
-(at a bridal show) "Call me and set up a consutation with me and I'll discuss how I want you and your wife to set up and shoot the upcoming reception."
-"I don't see why you need two video cameras to film a wedding."(this coming from a husband & wife photography team")
-(The ladies will like this one...addressed to my wife)
"Is there any such thing as a woman videographer?"
(Jenn responded) "Only the good ones"
-"Aren't you and your wife really postal workers"
-"You'll probably never be able to do this full time being the last option"
-"You video guys have it easy, my lenses alone cost $10,000 each."
Brian M
Video by Moak

X-Bill_Mitchell
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May 3, 2003, 1:50 PM

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A bride revolts! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just read a long thread on a local "Knot" where the bride decided not to use a photographer because he wouldn't allow video during his photo shoot. The bride had been tipped off by a videographer (not me) on how some photogs are restrictive and then she noticed the clause in his contract. The photographer's wife even posted to defend him.
This particular photographer is the only one I've worked with in 10 years that gave me a problem in this regard. He's actually a nice enough guy, but to "protect" his shots, he uses a wide-angle lens and gets so close to his subjects that he's hard to shoot around.

X-Jenn_M
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May 3, 2003, 2:05 PM

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I've started trying to get one up on the photogs for this very reason - we had encounters with our own s@tan photogs. I now advise brides when they come in to meet with us to tell their photog that they are chosing to have a videographer present and that they prefer for us to work together. I also suggest they ask their photog (ideally BEFORE hiring him/her) about their opinion of video. And if the video is important, I tell to they may want to mention that.
One bride wrote her photog a letter and basically told him to stay out of our way after we showed her some footage from a previous wedding we had done w/ this photog. She didn't like how his little bald head was in nearly EVERY shot, and neither did I which is why I decided to blow the whistle on him - he he he. At the wedding, he mentioned rec'ing the letter to us, but he never blamed us, which leads me to believe that the bride never mentioned she saw that footage, which made me even happier b/c she handled it properly as a consumer. Anyway, he was annoyed, but he stayed out of our way, and you know what - we BOTH got what we needed. The groom told us later that they were very happy with everything.
I'd like to believe he - the photog- learned a lesson that day - (Oh, da, I can stand NEXT to the videographer and get the same thing as when I stand in FRONT of the videographer...) but I'm sure that's an optimistic thought.
-Jenn M

X-Brian
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May 3, 2003, 3:32 PM

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Re: A bride revolts! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thats a classic trick. The ohter one is to bring a heavy assistant who stands in our way. Most brides I talk to grill the photogs about working with video. One bride told me she did not use a particular photog because when she mentioned video , the guy got all territorial. I've only worked with one photog like you mentioned. The rest are very cool.

: I just read a long thread on a local "Knot" where the bride decided not to use a photographer because he wouldn't allow video during his photo shoot. The bride had been tipped off by a videographer (not me) on how some photogs are restrictive and then she noticed the clause in his contract. The photographer's wife even posted to defend him.
: This particular photographer is the only one I've worked with in 10 years that gave me a problem in this regard. He's actually a nice enough guy, but to "protect" his shots, he uses a wide-angle lens and gets so close to his subjects that he's hard to shoot around.

X-Mike
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May 3, 2003, 8:02 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Scrub it unless the couple just has to have it. One major point is...the still shooters can't do movement and audio. Imagine looking at stills of your favorite film...no contest.

X-Scott
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May 4, 2003, 12:05 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I lost a wedding at the end of August because of this BS.
I explained to the bride in an email that the photogs are trying
to protect themselves with the selling of freeze frames. But, I told her I wouldn't let the quality of her video be compromised by another professional telling me what I can and can't shoot, and I would call the photog and work it out. I never heard from her again. Oh well. I have a clause in my contract giving me complete access to everything. I always have a copy with me to shove in someone's face who tries to tell me otherwise.

X-Iain_J
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May 4, 2003, 5:21 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I had the same problem with a photographer who said to the bride that if the video guy(me)was recording while he was taking photos they would be of poorer quality -I kid you not! I carried on filming discretly (tally light off) and explained away from the bridal party that his poorer quality work was his problem, not mine, and that as I was contracted I intended to carry on regardless- it was not his wedding and he had no right to dictate what the couple got recorded on their wedding day. We understood each other. Next wedding was polite and professional and he did not object to filming. Next wedding later he was offering to refer all his video requests to us as he liked the way we worked- some turnaround! Unfortunately, I had to turn him down as I am working full time but the offer was appreciated. Now we have a great relationship, he even asks for suggested shots that will look good on video and sets them up for me while he takes photos and a sa result we have got some very nice footage that serves us both and the couple!
Iain J

: Hello,
: I recently met with the photographer who is shooting the first wedding my wife and I are filming.
: He is a nice guy and very skilled. His medium format work is outstanding.
: But his contract with the bride states that there is to be no videotaping while he is taking photographs. I asked 'Why?'. He explained that he did not want couples to use a still from the video for thier wedding photos. I tried explaining that the resolution of a video frame is dwarfed by a medium format photo. There is absolutley no comparision in quality. I think my words fell on deaf ears.
: He is waving the rule for us (I gave him a photoshop lesson in exchange), but is this the sort of thing that I can expect from photographers?
: Mark

X-Jeff_Kirkland
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May 4, 2003, 8:35 AM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

So far I've only worked with one photog who was deliberately getting in our way. He didn't take many shots himself, as he was training his assistant and so was running around directing her shots. Trouble was, it seemed that directing his assistant meant walking in front of our camera every few seconds.
The photog was 'too busy' to talk to us so my wife pulled the assistant aside and had a word. The assistant said that the photographer had a thing about anyone else shooting anything (still or video) at one of his shoots and always did his best to mess up other people's shots.
The best bit though, was that the 'assistant' was actually a photographer that the 'photographer' had hired for the day. Seems this guy liked the idea of being a photographer but couldn't take a picture to save himself, so he'd hire someone who could and then tell the bridal party that his 'assistant' was 'in training' and so would take most of the shots while he supervised... bizarre!
Cheers
Jeff K

X-Ty_Reynolds
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May 4, 2003, 1:02 PM

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Re: No videotaping during photo shoot???? [In reply to]	Can't Post

:I told her I wouldn't let the quality of her video be compromised by another professional telling me what I can and can't shoot,:
I agree that at some point you have to say this. The problem is, when we say "I won't let the photographer (or anyone else)compromise the quality of the video," we sound an awful lot the photographer who says "I won't let the videographer compromise the quality of the pictures." You and I know what's Bee Ess and what's not, but all the bride sees (unless she's knowledgable on video and photography) is a power struggle.
Ty Reynolds