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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law

 
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Brackish
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 10:27 AM

Post #1 of 37 (1657 views)
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Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law Can't Post
Photog politely refused to take the pictures based upon his
christian beliefs. Lesbian filed complaint with State - and the
photog lost. His fines and legal bills are now mounting:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/...efault.aspx?id=75547



The photog's attorney said "the Commission's decision is tantamount
to the State of New Mexico forcing a vegetarian videographer to create a commercial for a butcher shop". The attorney said there are
similar laws in 19 other states.


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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RT Steele
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 10:49 AM

Post #2 of 37 (1644 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I wonder how the court figured these photographers caused $6,000 in damages since they didn't even take on the job? And whatever happened to, "Oops, I'm booked that day"

Also, if a client doesn't hire me because I'm fat and stupid do I have any legal recourse here? Tongue

- RT


DGates
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 11:02 AM

Post #3 of 37 (1635 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Also, if a client doesn't hire me because I'm fat and stupid do I have any legal recourse here?
Nah. I'd be a millionaire by now if that were the case.

Wink


glimmer
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 12:19 PM

Post #4 of 37 (1601 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
Oh, that's interesting....I got a call today about some sort of satantic wedding with an animal sacrifice....needless to say I said no, but what would happen there, and is the latter part of that even allowed? Hmm. I called another videographer about this and she just laughed....bizzare folks in this world. Never done any lesbian/gay weddings, and I can't say I'd have a problem with just about anything (it's business, right?), but it reminds me of the rainbowedding site, which always bugs me to join and advertise.


glimmer
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 12:26 PM

Post #5 of 37 (1591 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
And I was thinking....if the photographer booked the event and then refused, I could see a lawsuit being warranted. But in our business, we do cater to specific entities only, and I find it rather ridiculous that this person was sued for saying no....too bad he/she didn't state the date just wasn't available. It's such a shame that people sue over everything these days, just to seemingly make a dollar rather than prove a point - at least in some cases.


cowboy13
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 2:09 PM

Post #6 of 37 (1541 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal. It would be different if the event was officially booked but it wasn't. It is things like this that will continue to put a dark cloud over the gay/lesbian issue in this society. My advice to the couple, get over it and go find another professional to shoot your wedding. Lawsuits of this type only anger those that do not support or understand this lifestyle choice. I have never been in this situation and not really sure how I will handle the situation.

Brack......keep us updated on the appeal.


RT Steele
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 2:49 PM

Post #7 of 37 (1522 views)
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Re: [cowboy13] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal.

If this falls under an explicit New Mexico sexual orientation discrimination law then the case might have legs. Of course there needs to be more evidence than, "he-said-she-said" when it comes time for the couple to prove it. But if the photog didn't elude to a discriminatory reason he should be ok.

But if he said something like, "Sorry, we don't swing that way Sweetcheeks!" he might be toast if they can prove it. Laugh

Still don't understand the damages though.

- RT (arm chair lawyering again)


Bob A
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 5:38 PM

Post #8 of 37 (1487 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal.


As well they should. But the a-holes have still won because it will cost the poor guy twice that much to file and try the appeal. The friggen country has gone wacko.


Kenneth
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 6:48 PM

Post #9 of 37 (1478 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I can't imagine that a wedding vendor can be sued for refusing to accept a job. If the couple has the right to believe in same sex marriages, the photographer has the right to believe that it's wrong.

New Jersey recent legalized same sex marriages and I was approached to do one. I met with the couple but they never got back to me. But I can't imagine them being any different than a wedding between a man and woman.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress


(This post was edited by Kenneth on Apr 11, 2008, 10:50 PM)


RustyB
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 9:53 PM

Post #10 of 37 (1410 views)
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Re: [Kenneth] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
Remember Kenneth, this is the public forum, and your biz name is plastered all in your sig. Tongue




the People's Video Collective blog
wedding video and the means of production


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 11:00 PM

Post #11 of 37 (1382 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
And whatever happened to, "Oops, I'm booked that day"
Remember: they're christians. Honesty.


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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 11:02 PM

Post #12 of 37 (1379 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
I got a call today about some sort of satantic wedding with an animal sacrifice....needless to say I said no,
Don't want to add that to your demo reel? Sly


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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 11:04 PM

Post #13 of 37 (1377 views)
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Re: [cowboy13] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal.
Time will tell.

And if he does win: At what cost to his pocketbook?


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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 11, 2008, 11:08 PM

Post #14 of 37 (1376 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal.

If this falls under an explicit New Mexico sexual orientation discrimination law then the case might have legs. ... But if the photog didn't elude to a discriminatory reason he should be ok.
My feeling is that he did allude to a discrminatory reason.


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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


cowboy13
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 12:28 AM

Post #15 of 37 (1364 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
Not too worried, the photographer will win on appeal.

If this falls under an explicit New Mexico sexual orientation discrimination law then the case might have legs. ... But if the photog didn't elude to a discriminatory reason he should be ok.
My feeling is that he did allude to a discrminatory reason.
People have rights to refuse any job they want to period. Lets forget the fact that this was for a lesbian wedding not to cause a stir and think of it from the fact that the vendor is being forced to do a wedding that he/she chooses not to do. This is not right....we have rights to refuse service. Whats next, a bitchy spoiled bride will sue because we don't want to take on her wedding. The fact is, this is a lifestyle choice and not everyone has to support this lifestyle, this is America isn't it? I am not saying I don't support this but I do support my freedom as a vendor to say no to any wedding I do not want to do....regardless of age, sex, race, attitude, looks, ect. The fact is, if you do not support their right to choose which clients they take on is just opening the door to further legal problems that every single one of us will have to face. Just remember, its not about a lesbian wedding, the real issue is about a vendors right to refuse to book a wedding.

This is why I plan to switch my business to a Corp or LLC sometime this year. If you sue me, I will simply shut the business down and find a something else to do with my free time. I don't have time for these dumb a$$ foolish lawsuits.


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 1:50 AM

Post #16 of 37 (1344 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Remember, this is the public forum, and your biz name is plastered all in your sig.
I wonder how many VUers will choose not to reply here just
because it's in the Public Forum. I bet this would get more
replies if it was originally posted in the hidden Members Only
forum instead.
There was another thread recently posted here in the Public and
I gather Members were reluctant to respond unless it was
in the Members Only.


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RustyB
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 2:05 AM

Post #17 of 37 (1340 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
...There was another thread recently posted here in the Public and
I gather Members were reluctant to respond unless it was
in the Members Only.


I think I can make a wild guess...LaughLaughLaugh




the People's Video Collective blog
wedding video and the means of production


JC/DV
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 7:35 AM

Post #18 of 37 (1303 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I don't see the $6000 in damages. I see both sides. Couple should have just found someone else to do the photography.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem shooting a same sex marriage... in fact, I think I did one one time, but that's another story.

The country is going bonkers... sue me, I sue you, we all sue for suing.

Jerome
JC/DV Productions - Website - Blog

Technology. It does wonders if you know how to use it.


cowboy13
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 11:59 AM

Post #19 of 37 (1268 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
Remember, this is the public forum, and your biz name is plastered all in your sig.
I wonder how many VUers will choose not to reply here just
because it's in the Public Forum.

For me I could care less even if my business information was listed. As a country we have to be able to have these dialogs without someone flipping out. This happens alot on the off topic in regards to politics, the name calling and insulting goes crazy on there. I don't think anyone has stated that they are against same sex marriages but rather they disagree about a lawsuit for refusal of service, this is still the real issue that we need to be concerned about.


videogal
User

Apr 12, 2008, 12:28 PM

Post #20 of 37 (1258 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I'm not a Christian (I'm Jewish), and don't in any way speak for Christians in general, but I would think treating your fellow man/woman with kindness would allow the photographer to say "sorry, I'm booked that day" even if you do have a moral issue with the wedding. I would not consider that being dishonest in general. You can't just believe the part about "gays are evil" or whatever without believing the rest of Judeo/Christian beliefs about treating your common man decently "love your neighbor" "do unto others" and all that other stuff.

Spoke with a couple recently who had called a photographer who said that they were an "abomination against God" - I think that was very rude of him.

Plus - you never know when that bride or groom might have a straight friend getting married - they might pass on your name to them.

I think that the Rainbow Wedding Network is great for people who want to speak with a company that has already established themselves as "gay friendly". Saw the 2 ladies that started it at 4EG in January and, boy howdy, there is some money to be spent in that market - and I'm not afraid to say publicly I would take this type of wedding if called.
Miriam Moran
Omaha Wedding Video
www.OmahaWeddingVideo.com

(This post was edited by videogal on Apr 12, 2008, 12:34 PM)


RT Steele
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 12:39 PM

Post #21 of 37 (1253 views)
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Re: [JC/DV] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I don't see the $6000 in damages. I see both sides
Maybe the oddball amount is just a qualifier to put the case in some special civil court (who knows?).

The article is kind of one-sided. Most likely, the couple was booked and the photog found out later they were lesbians and canceled them beause of this. I can see this scneario causing headaches for the couple and I'd be pissed to.


wouldn't have a problem shooting a same sex marriage... in fact, I think I did one one time
I've done a few of those myself. You wouldn't want to arm-wrestle some of my brides. Sly

- RT


cowboy13
Veteran


Apr 12, 2008, 6:35 PM

Post #22 of 37 (1207 views)
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Re: [videogal] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
People have rights to believe anything they want to. The way the article is written, we have to assume that they were refused the booking and not that the photographer cancelled the booking, this means the photographer has a choice to do this wedding or pass on the wedding. It really is amazing that the freedom of choice goes away when it does not satisfy certain situations such as this. Personally, I would probably do the wedding but it is 100% "my decision" and not some dumb a$$ court system. I would rather shut my business down than be forced to do a wedding that I chose not to.


Timothy Harry
Veteran


Apr 13, 2008, 1:45 AM

Post #23 of 37 (1145 views)
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Re: [cowboy13] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
This is why I plan to switch my business to a Corp or LLC sometime this year. If you sue me, I will simply shut the business down and find a something else to do with my free time. I don't have time for these dumb a$$ foolish lawsuits.
Already there. It actually costs me more money once I factor in franchise taxes, state BS, and CPA fees, but the peace of mind at night knowing that the worst someone will get is my business assets if they sued me because I told them I wasnt taking their business because they were gay, blue, fat, skiny, ugly, bitchy, stupid, trashy, porn stars, or whatever I chose to use as my reason. In the state I live in, I really dont have too much to worry about, As far as I know I can refuse business to anyone I want for whatever reason I want. That being said, they also have the right to protest outside my door too.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers


VidMan
Veteran


Apr 13, 2008, 4:06 PM

Post #24 of 37 (1079 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
I was an LLC once may be again but remember they don't have to just sue your company. They can sue you personally for looking at them in a funny way. Not saying it's a good thing but the LLC is great to protect you in the event there is a mistake made but if you refuse a wedding there is nothing stopping them from suing YOU for insulting them.

Heck someone can sue your 2nd shooter if they don't like the angles they were filming from. It would be a frivolous suit but these days everyone is so sue-happy and as we slide further and further down the economic path I can see this happening more and more.

I do believe that as business owners if we are not comfortable filming a wedding we have the right to refuse it. I declined a wedding last week because I had a bad feeling about the couple and lo and behold they are not making nice with their photog who is a very good friend of mine.

My personal belief is if 2 people are in love and their money is green... we'll film it Cool

Brian
______________________________________________
VU Virginia Chapter


Brackish
Veteran


Apr 13, 2008, 11:23 PM

Post #25 of 37 (1034 views)
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Re: [VidMan] Photog refuses to take pics of lesbian wedding: Now in trouble under anti-discrimination law [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
My personal belief is if 2 people are in love and their money is green... we'll film it.
Even if there's an animal sacrifice involved? Wink


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

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