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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category

 

 


X-Tara
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Apr 24, 2003, 4:06 PM

Post #1 of 20 (2202 views)
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Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category Can't Post

I've been using Premiere to do my photo montages, and lately it's gotten worse
concerning the "jitter" when you do an image pan/zoom on a still. It seems
about every third or fifth still has a jitter or a hard snap as it zooms in or out
and applying a minute rotation (which is recommended in several places) hasn't
helped the problem.
So, has anyone had a similar problem in Final Cut, either Express or Pro? I'm
considering switching and I'm headed off to the Apple Store for their weekly
presentation of FCE, but I wanted to hear from actual people who are using the
program for the same application that I'm intending (mostly montages). I'm
sure the Apple store will tell me everything's peaches & cream (these are the
same people who told me that my dual 1.42 should boot into OS9 if I just put
the software on), but I want to hear the stories of those of you in the trenches.
Many, many thanks.


X-Colvin_Eccleston
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 4:22 PM

Post #2 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category Can't Post

Why don't you try after effects? I find it great.


X-George_Loch
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Apr 24, 2003, 4:38 PM

Post #3 of 20 (2199 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are on a mac, I highly recommend Still Life from Granted Software. It focuses on photomontages and it makes quick work of it. Best part is that is only $25.
<a href="http://www.grantedsw.com" target=_new>Still Life</a>
GL
: I've been using Premiere to do my photo montages, and lately it's gotten worse
: concerning the "jitter" when you do an image pan/zoom on a still. It seems
: about every third or fifth still has a jitter or a hard snap as it zooms in or out
: and applying a minute rotation (which is recommended in several places) hasn't
: helped the problem.
: So, has anyone had a similar problem in Final Cut, either Express or Pro? I'm
: considering switching and I'm headed off to the Apple Store for their weekly
: presentation of FCE, but I wanted to hear from actual people who are using the
: program for the same application that I'm intending (mostly montages). I'm
: sure the Apple store will tell me everything's peaches & cream (these are the
: same people who told me that my dual 1.42 should boot into OS9 if I just put
: the software on), but I want to hear the stories of those of you in the trenches.
: Many, many thanks.


X-Rick_Koetter
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 5:40 PM

Post #4 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

: If you are on a mac, I highly recommend Still Life from Granted Software. It focuses on photomontages and it makes quick work of it. Best part is that is only $25.

Hey George,
Do you use Still Life? I downloaded the Demo and thought the interface was excellent!!! It's a very intuitive way to set up motion. I am just curious as to how difficult it would be to get the transitions to synch up with the music? How do you do it?


X-Joel_Peregrine
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 8:16 PM

Post #5 of 20 (2198 views)
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Hey Colvin,
I found After Effect to have an extremely high learning curve and be overkill for wedding work. But if you know it and have it - it's got unlimited possibilities...
Joel
: Why don't you try after effects? I find it great.


X-Joel_Peregrine
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 8:24 PM

Post #6 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tara,
I do Photo Montages with motion all the time on FCP and it's extremely smooth. I have BorisFX for really detailed work, but 99% of the time I use the motion control built right into FCP. You're going to have to do some research to find out if FCE has the same motion keyframing features, and the best person to ask is someone that's used them both. Unfortunately there aren't too many FCP users that have down graded to FCE and not many FCE users who have already upgraded to FCP. So you're stuck with the so-called 'experts' at the Apple store. A REALLY good place for this and other FCE/FCP related questions is on www.2-pop.com. There's an incredible wealth of knowledge on those boards...

: (these are the
: same people who told me that my dual 1.42 should boot into OS9 if I just put
: the software on), but I want to hear the stories of those of you in the trenches.
Are you serious? They told you a 1.42gHz G4 would boot into 9? And these are Mac 'experts'?! That's unbelievable! There are about a bazillion lines of code for drivers and firmware that the new G4's don't have that would allow them to run OS9 outside of classic. My faith in the experts just took a dive...
Joel

: Many, many thanks.


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 10:28 PM

Post #7 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually downloaded the Still Life demo last week and tried it out. I thought it
was great, except for the hard start/stop motion of the image pan. Does the
full version allow you to change that, or are all of their movements like that?
I was considering using it,but I wanted to know before I bought it.


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 10:35 PM

Post #8 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Joel,
First off, let me just say that the info and advice you provide on this board is
immeasurable. I think most of the questions I've had, you've answered
somewhere along here. Thanks so much.
Well, try not to be too hard on Apple experts, as it was the sales guys who told
me this. They said that the new machines simply weren't bundled with the full
version of 9, and for $20 I could get it directly through Apple. They even
printed me up an order form and everything. Of course, there was one guy
there who said that the OS9 off of my iMac should boot the G4. Even I knew
that was wrong.
Hopefully their FCP/FCE expert guy doing the presentation tomorrow night will
know his stuff. He wasn't there the other night when I stopped by, but they let
me use the machine in back with both programs. I couldn't figure out the pan/
zoom in FCE, but about 2 minutes into FCP I could do it, and I must say the
interface alone makes me want to jump ship from Premiere. The FCP just
seems easier to understand... maybe I'm just a 'grass is greener' type right
now.
I'll definitely also check out the forum you recommended before parting with
my husband's hard earned money (gee, he'll be so thrilled).
;^)
Thanks again.


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 10:40 PM

Post #9 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

I was putzing around with AE last night actually, to see if it was any better. I
did like the way you set up a pan/zoom over the way it's done in Premiere (it
also helps that I was familiar with LiveMotion, which has similar controls).
Can you tell me if there is a similar option in AE for Storyboard>Automate to
Timeline like in Premiere? To me that's one of the greatest features in the
program, and if AE has something similar, I'd really consider using it instead.
I'm just looking for a good, stable program that's gonna do what I need for a
montage, without too much drama. That was Premiere, until my untrained eye
started getting 'trained'.
Thanks.
: Hey Colvin,
: I found After Effect to have an extremely high learning curve and be overkill
for wedding work. But if you know it and have it - it's got unlimited
possibilities...
: Joel
: : Why don't you try after effects? I find it great.


X-Joel_Peregrine
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 11:22 PM

Post #10 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tara,
: I'll definitely also check out the forum you recommended before parting with
: my husband's hard earned money (gee, he'll be so thrilled).
I've been trying to get my wife interested in editing ever since I started, nearly 16 years ago (ackk - I just realized that's a long time - this age thing creeps up on you). She's a trained printmaker and oil painter but has no interest in computers......damn.
Joel


X-Joel_Peregrine
Imported Account

Apr 24, 2003, 11:24 PM

Post #11 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi again Tara,
: Can you tell me if there is a similar option in AE for Storyboard>Automate to
: Timeline like in Premiere? To me that's one of the greatest features in the
: program, and if AE has something similar, I'd really consider using it instead.
Unfortunately I'm one of the group that never took the time to learn AE. Can't help you here...
Joel


X-Colvin_Eccleston
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 1:27 AM

Post #12 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, you can import projects direct from premiere, so you could do it that way. I don't know ae that much myself. Like Joel says, it is a really deep program. However, I like the way it can do a lot automatically. It will import all your photos onto separate layers with a transition with one click. You can also be much more precise in ae with your effects.


X-George_Loch
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 1:30 AM

Post #13 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

I do have it and use it. I have found it pretty easy to work with adjusting lengths but there is no visual way to setup a transition on a music mark. For that level of control I would go to FCP or AE
I am beta testing the next version and it has a very cool feature that the program will automatically match the length of the stills to the length of an audio clip or multiple clips. So, I can take say 50 images from iPhoto, drop them into the timeline, add an audio clip and then just tell it to reset the length of each still to match the total of the audio. Then I select the 'Make life screensaver and Voila! It's done. I just have to export a QT movie that I then import into FCP. It is a BIG time saver.
I use Still Life for montages that are mainly just 50 photos set to music. If I have something that requires more then I go to FCP.
GL

: Hey George,
: Do you use Still Life? I downloaded the Demo and thought the interface was excellent!!! It's a very intuitive way to set up motion. I am just curious as to how difficult it would be to get the transitions to synch up with the music? How do you do it?


X-George_Loch
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 1:39 AM

Post #14 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

There are two ways to do it:
Setup cross fades so that it fades before the motion stops.
OR
Use the "Like screensaver" option and it will add motion and fades to all the picts in the timeline (like the OS X photo screen savers). Makes for fast montage work.
GL
: I actually downloaded the Still Life demo last week and tried it out. I thought it
: was great, except for the hard start/stop motion of the image pan. Does the
: full version allow you to change that, or are all of their movements like that?
: I was considering using it,but I wanted to know before I bought it.


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 5:38 AM

Post #15 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hiya Joel,
Well, I just went over to those boards, and it sounds like even the people who
use Premiere aren't terribly happy with it, mostly because of the bugs and the
numerous workarounds you have to employ to get a finished project. That
definitely has given me a shove in the right direction.
And yes, my husband is slowly coming around. When I first mentioned I wanted
to do this kind of work, he was low key about it until he actually saw a
montage. Then he got interested. But then one night in our office (aka the
spare bedroom) where we have my Mac in one corner and his PC in the other, I
was scrubbing back and forth to synch up an audio track to a video clip of this
guy singing the same song at karaoke. I'm sure you're familiar with the sounds
of running back and forth over the same frames over and over...
"What the heck are you doing over there?"
And he came over and I explained what I was trying to do. He sat there and was
utterly fascinated. So much so in fact that he 'invested' in the business (hence
my gorgeous new G4, but that also came about because I was losing serious
amounts of sleep rendering stuff on my iMac DV SE 400 and he was getting
lonely sleeping with just the dog).
Even tho' I haven't actually jumpstarted the business yet (the 3 montages I've
done so far have been freebies for family & friends), I now have the demo
material to start pounding the pavement, and he jokes that once I'm making
tons of money he'll come and work for me (heck of a jump from Operations
Manager/Mortgage Underwriter to video editing, but he's genius with a
computer). He even said he'll learn how to work with a Mac (the PC/Mac debate
has been waged throughout the years with us, since he comes from a DOS
background), so I couldn't ask for anything more (of course, I didn't mention
anything about PC software, I'll hold onto that for now).
So yeah, I could see the definite appeal of working with the spouse, especially
if I'm the boss... (bwahahaha).
Until then, I'll settle for his investment capital.
;^D
Thanks again for all your help. I'll let you know how it goes at the Apple Store
tomorrow.
: Hi Tara,
: : I'll definitely also check out the forum you recommended before parting with
: : my husband's hard earned money (gee, he'll be so thrilled).
: I've been trying to get my wife interested in editing ever since I started, nearly
16 years ago (ackk - I just realized that's a long time - this age thing creeps up
on you). She's a trained printmaker and oil painter but has no interest in
computers......damn.
: Joel


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 6:37 AM

Post #16 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi George,
I went back into the Still Life demo and tried out your suggestions. Although
the screensaver one still had a stop at the beginning of each new still,
increasing the transitions really worked well. This is a great little product.
Any word on when the new version will be out and if there will be an upgrade
price, or do you have to buy the whole thing again (at $30, that's not bad at all
either).


X-Tim_T
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 9:22 AM

Post #17 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Tara,
I was looking into FC Express once to use in this old Mac that I never use (I'm a switch hitter - Windows & Mac's) and was pretty well stopped in my tracks when I learned that effects are NOT keyframable in FCE. If what I read/heard was infact correct, this means that you could pan & crop all day long, but you couldn't say...let a picture fade from b&w to color across time, or go from blurred to in focus. These are things that I would think would be pretty important to a well done photo montage.
You might want to look into this before you consider FCE, and then again I might have mis-read this information and this might not be the case. Good luck just the same.
Tim


X-George_Loch
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 10:14 AM

Post #18 of 20 (2198 views)
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The upgrade should be available soon and it will be free to current users. One thing that I had to figure out was to get a full preview of the full presentation, you have to click in between the pictures to deselect all the picts so when you click play it will start from the beginning.
GL
: Hi George,
: I went back into the Still Life demo and tried out your suggestions. Although
: the screensaver one still had a stop at the beginning of each new still,
: increasing the transitions really worked well. This is a great little product.
: Any word on when the new version will be out and if there will be an upgrade
: price, or do you have to buy the whole thing again (at $30, that's not bad at all
: either).


X-Brian_M
Imported Account

Apr 25, 2003, 10:45 PM

Post #19 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

No Joel, you're not the only one. I didn't learn After Effects either.
A friend of mine has it and he was trying to learn it too.
If I had it in my studio, I may be able to get a hold of it but I find myself asking these 2 questions: 1) Do bride's really care enough to pay for the increase we're going to have to impose doing that extra work and 2)If I can't stand Premiere and photoshop, do I want to spend that much for After Effects and be disappointed and abandon it?

Brian M
Video by Moak


X-Tara
Imported Account

Apr 26, 2003, 1:32 AM

Post #20 of 20 (2198 views)
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Re: Premiere vs. FCP in the montage category [In reply to] Can't Post

Right...
Remember what you were saying about having faith in Apple experts. Well, this
guy was definitely not one of them.
I expected to have this fairly knowledgeable person give this demo... well, if
you had given me FCE a couple of days ago and asked me to give a demo, this
is the one I would have given. The guy was fairly new to the program and
couldn't clearly answer some of my questions, but the cool thing was that we
were able to figure out stuff together, which gives me the impression that this
is damned easy to pick up, and it looks pretty good too. Admittedly, I'm not
too thrilled with the lack of export options, but it should cover what I need.
Ah, but then he showed me some of the stuff that Pro 4 will offer, and that just
looks too cool for words.
So, now I'm thinking about maybe hitting eBay for a Pro 3 box, and then
upgrading that at $50 next month.
Now, to make some money so I can do that! ;^)
Again, thanks for all your help!
-Tara