Video University: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography: Recession?: Page 2

VideoUniversity.com
Home	Free Library	Store
Free Catalog Please support VU by making your B&H purchases and links through this B&H ad. Doesn't cost a penny more.

See The New VU Postcard Catalog

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.

Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members

Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index	Search Posts
Who's Online	Log In

Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Recession?

1 2

View All

Brackish
Veteran

Mar 26, 2008, 8:37 PM

Post #26 of 50 (942 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Bob A] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

So, as long as we don't say that "the sky is falling" ...

This means nothing to you?:

"The savings rate fell below zero last year for the first time since the 1930s"

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Reelt
Novice

Mar 26, 2008, 8:57 PM

Post #27 of 50 (933 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Bob A] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Gee sport – you mean you DIDN’T check the spelling on your web site!!?? WOW!
Ya, I took a look at your web site. Just curious why you think you are so intellectually superior to everyone that charges less than you do. Your spelling errors are very obvious and comical. That gave me enough insight into you and your business sense.
Making spelling errors is not that costly or uncommon, having them on the front page of your web site is, well, priceless! That says a lot about how much you value yourself and your company.
How long have I been in business - well since 1988 actually. Do I win a prize?
Don't quite understand the brake job thing, unless that you relate some similarity between that and anyone that is lower priced than whatever arbitrary number you have put on the value of your style of wed vids.
So what happens if you decide to go up $200, does that mean a whole new group of wedding videographers are now idiots when they were OK just the day before? How about if you decide to go up $500, that would make a huge number of your fellow videographers idiots according to you!
BTW, your posts here indicate that you suck at spelling (I do too!) try using a spellchecker; they are free with most every word processing program, at least on something as important as your web site.

Intellectually superior? Never said that. You really don't understand the nature of business. Please...I have been in business since 1980 and I am not surprised you don't understand the (Brake Thing). That is the nature of free enterprise. Quality and service will win over time. Not price. So again, as a industry we need to increase our prices not lower them. Find other means of income besides weddings to supplement, It's out there. Eventually the idiots will disappear (If you feel you are one of the Idiot's then I guess you are) and the true value of wedding videography will prevail. My original post was for hawadst...to encourage him, not to you who is obviously having money problems. Good Luck and I hope you find happiness in some other means of work.

_________________________________________________

Never underestimate the other guys greed....

Bob A
Veteran

Mar 26, 2008, 9:17 PM

Post #28 of 50 (919 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

This means nothing to you?:

"The savings rate fell below zero last year for the first time since the 1930s"
-----------------------------------
er, no. I have more money in savings at the moment than any time in my life, so I guess they did not include me in their statistics.
If that is even what that statistic means.
Funny thing about that kind of info, isn’t it. In fact I bought a 2 bedroom house for cash – no mortgage - this week and still have a pretty good balance. I am also helping a friend with his new, start-up business. That business is in sales and installation of business furniture and equipment. He is cranking already with numbers that would startle you. So whatever doom and gloom you want to quote; does not apply here. I see others here reporting great years also.
But keep trying, you might convince someone that things suck! Wink

Reelt
Novice

Mar 26, 2008, 9:30 PM

Post #29 of 50 (913 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

First rule in real estate never buy a two bedroom house for an investment..Don't listen to this guy. He has know clue.

_________________________________________________

Never underestimate the other guys greed....

Bob A
Veteran

Mar 26, 2008, 10:05 PM

Post #30 of 50 (901 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Reelt] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

First rule in real estate never buy a two bedroom house for an investment..Don't listen to this guy. He has know clue.

Egads, I thought you were just arrogant, but you really are an idiot.
BTW, even spell check will not help if you are totally clueless about word usage. At least you were able to spell "real estate" correctly here, unlike the front page of your web site. Shocked

You no what I mean!? Sly

Reelt
Novice

Mar 26, 2008, 10:18 PM

Post #31 of 50 (896 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Bob A] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

First rule in real estate never buy a two bedroom house for an investment..Don't listen to this guy. He has know clue.

You no what I mean!? Sly

Wow, I must of really got to you. I guess the word idiot was used quite often around you.

_________________________________________________

Never underestimate the other guys greed....

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 12:20 AM

Post #32 of 50 (869 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Reelt] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

First rule in real estate never buy a two bedroom house for an investment..Don't listen to this guy. He has know clue.

You no what I mean!? Sly

Wow, I must of really got to you. I guess the word idiot was used quite often around you.

I know you're going to attack me back but I don't care. You really shouldn't throw stones at people. All of your packages are underpriced for doing both photo and video. $5000 for your Ruby Package would only get you the photographer in the Philly area, which means you are giving away your video services.

One thing I know after being on VU for a while now is despite our differences and debates, we all consider each other friends. I can't see you being very welcome on here when in your first 26 posts you call some members idiots.

So you can say all you want, but this idiot is doing okay and supporting my family and putting some money away for retirement.

BTW - 1995 called and they want their website design back. I seriously don't know why a bride would look at that site and take you serious. And dude, hide that Quicktime controller when you add music to your website. WTF? LOL
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 12:37 AM

Post #33 of 50 (860 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Reelt] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quality and service will win over time. Not price.

That would explain why Apple is the most used operating system in....oh...hmmmm, that's not a good example.

care to offer any explanations on how Wal-mart got so successful? Must have been a fluke, eh?
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

Bob A
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 9:55 AM

Post #34 of 50 (822 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Brack, Just saw a statistic that Americans spend 8 times as much on eating out as we do putting money is savings. So, do you think that is due to the bad economy or just conscious choice on the part of the individual consumer?? Can't be that many stoves broken and folks can't afford to fix them Smile

Reelt
Novice

Mar 27, 2008, 10:03 AM

Post #35 of 50 (821 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quality and service will win over time. Not price.

Kenneth I am not going to attach you. I should of used the words (there is always someone) I apologize if I offended anyone for using the word idiot. After that first post I felt I was being attached.

Your right about my web site it was originally designed for digital film transfers. The wedding part of the business really took off. I will be making changes.

$5000. for 6 hr, a basic edit, photography not including a book. Trust me it works out better than you think. I have seen other companies hiring editors, shooters, it is very hard to maintain the quality and service you provided. In my opinion it will hurt you.

You cannot compare retail to a service business, different mind sets to the customer...

I am not a fan of walmart I feel they have hurt this country more than helped.
Can you imagine going to walmart for your wedding video.

_________________________________________________

Never underestimate the other guys greed....

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 11:41 AM

Post #36 of 50 (796 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Reelt] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Everyone's opinions are welcome here. You have carte blanche to try and persuade people that they need to raise prices to further the business. But once your arguments stops being lucid and gets into the name calling, we;re going to find that nobody will listen to you. Wink

I think Walmart is the perfect example for this business. What company in the USA does more weddings than any of us and is making way more money than any of us?

The Pros. We all know they do crap videos, but people still hire them. That should be a hint and a half for our industry that many people don't mind a crappy video. Now the more your charge the less crappy that video is allowed to be. The clients expects more for their money.

Raising prices is only good for the industry if the quality of the video is warranted. I can tell you that I have seen demos of some of the high end videographers and the quality doesn't justify the price.

So I could charge more, I guess, but I'm doing damn good for now. And with a supposed recession coming on I decided to play it safe for now.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

(This post was edited by Kenneth on Mar 27, 2008, 12:57 PM)

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 1:01 PM

Post #37 of 50 (775 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Reelt] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dude, you weren't really supposed to call him. You were supposed to just ask who he was and then somebody would tell you.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

Laura K
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 1:36 PM

Post #38 of 50 (764 views)
Shortcut

Re: [howardst] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Howard,
You are in Reno? Now I'm not too familiar, but isn't Reno like a small Vegas?
Do you have a lot of low ball companies running around?
L
"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

RT Steele
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 1:53 PM

Post #39 of 50 (760 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Customers set prices in America...not sellers. Cool

I filled gas at the local 8-11 the other day. (The bastards never open at 7 around here Mad

). I offered them $2.35 a gallon but they wouldn't budge. Laugh

Seriously, the only time sellers dictate prices is when the extraneous costs to do business affect ALL the suppliers. And you're right, that won't happen in video unless MiniDV tapes suddenly skyrocket to $40 a pop or Shania Twain starts asking for her cut. Otherwise, part-timers will still undercut everybody, watering down the economics of this biz because even a $300 profit is better than sitting at home watching Scooby on Saturday morning.

- RT

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 4:12 PM

Post #40 of 50 (730 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RT Steele] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

even a $300 profit is better than sitting at home watching Scooby on Saturday morning.

- RT

Now you're catching on. That's the way this industry works. And that one booking he does for $300 profit could get him some referrals which will get him some more gigs and then eventually raise his prices.

And before you get all bent out of shape, there are photographers like that as well, but for some reason there are many photographers who can get $5000 or more but very few videographers.

And THAT is the question that needs to be answered. If both photo and video have high end and low ballers, why is the photo market much more lucrative. Answer that question, my friend, and you will understand what needs to be done to level the playing field and get us paid as equals.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

(This post was edited by Kenneth on Mar 27, 2008, 6:25 PM)

RT Steele
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 5:38 PM

Post #41 of 50 (714 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

even a $300 profit is better than sitting at home watching Scooby on Saturday morning.

- RT

Now you're catching on

No Kenny. I was speaking about the part-timers like me with semi-lucrative day jobs, full pensions, working spouses and cheap health care coming out our arseholes. Laugh

If both photo and video have high end and low ballers, why is the video market much more lucrative.

Eh? You think the video side of things is more lucrative? Yeah it's more competitive but in my neck of the woods it almost always commands a higher price tag. Even if it didn't... do we really have to hash out the *net* bottom line of a photog vs. videog with regard to *time* and post-production? Surely not.

but for some reason there are many photographers who can get $5000 or more but very few videographers.

Apples to butt-melons. Two different mediums sponging off the same client. Don't even go there.

- RT

Roscoe_Video
User

Mar 27, 2008, 5:41 PM

Post #42 of 50 (714 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kenneth,

Just so I can get clear on what you're saying...

"..but for some reason there are many photographers who can get $5000 or more but very few videographers." Are you saying, taking into account that only an estimated 10-30% of weddings have video, that in proportion there are more photographers and videographers getting over $5000?

"If both photo and video have high end and low ballers, why is the video market much more lucrative. Answer that question, my friend, and you will understand what needs to be done to level the playing field and get us paid as equals."

I don't understand the point you are making here, "why is the video market much more lucrative" which market are you talking about photography or videography?

When you say "you will understand what needs to be done to level the playing field and get us paid as equals." Do you mean that we should all get the same amount for our work?

Ross

Kenneth
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 6:36 PM

Post #43 of 50 (699 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RT Steele] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

sorry. I meant to say the photography side is more lucrative.

But my point is that couples are never presented with the option of getting a photographer and not getting one, which is just a basic no-no when it comes to sales. The prospect should never be presented with an option of something or nothing - hey should be given an option of product A or B.

And that's the situation we are in. So many couples but not enough videographers (within their price range). There are lots of great videographers out there but too many of them are busy being artists instead of being business people and doing what most companies would want, which is getting their product into the hands of as many clients as possible.

Bottom line - high end videographer's should follow Maurice O'Connell's lead and go after the mid priced, and/or the low price market. We need 100% saturation. The photographers, DJs, florist already have it. Our product is more important than some flowers that will die in a day.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

RT Steele
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 6:52 PM

Post #44 of 50 (692 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

sorry. I meant to say the photography side is more lucrative.

I've never seen one sentence throw a whole post out of complete context before. No offense but... "duh". Laugh

Our product is more important than some flowers that will die in a day.

If Uncle Charlie or Cousin Cleetus could grow flowers, they'd be doing that too. That's the problem with low priced video I think most people aren't seeing. It doesn't necessarily gaurantee a vast market. Instead it merely opens up a whole new segment of competition which doesn't even know (or care) it's competing with you. Sly

The "high-enders" don't have to worry about this. (Which I ain't by the way).

- RT

Brackish
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 8:06 PM

Post #45 of 50 (678 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RT Steele] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

part-timers like me with semi-lucrative day jobs, full pensions, working spouses and cheap health care coming out our arseholes.

What I don't understand is why anyone in such a position would even bother taking on a part-time job. I know I wouldn't touch this line of work if I were in the position you describe.

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

RT Steele
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 9:05 PM

Post #46 of 50 (665 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

part-timers like me with semi-lucrative day jobs, full pensions, working spouses and cheap health care coming out our arseholes.

What I don't understand is why anyone in such a position would even bother taking on a part-time job. I know I wouldn't touch this line of work if I were in the position you describe.

Exactly!

There was a time when I really enjoyed this Brack. Now the thrill comes and goes. And as much as I bitch about it here, folks probably think somebody is holding a gun to my head and making me do it. Laugh

I stopped booking for 2008 over 6 months ago. 2 more weddings to go (last one in May). By mid July I should be all done with any backlog. Then I'm going to rethink things. The extra dough's nice but I'm not making enough at this to buy summer homes in Flordia so we're not dependant on it. Originally I wanted to retire early from my day job and do this semi-full time, without all the financial stress. That may still happen - I just don't know right now. Photography is tempting but that's got its own pitfalls.

Maybe Rusty will hire me to man his Elura for him? One bean burrito and an expired Bud is all I need. Sly

- RT

cowboy13
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 9:50 PM

Post #47 of 50 (651 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

part-timers like me with semi-lucrative day jobs, full pensions, working spouses and cheap health care coming out our arseholes.

What I don't understand is why anyone in such a position would even bother taking on a part-time job. I know I wouldn't touch this line of work if I were in the position you describe.

Ok, I'll answer this one since I fit in this catigory.

Lets see, imagine your most bitchiest bride, your most pain in the arse photographer(with 2 assistants for candid shots), 2 uncle charlie videographers hired by the bride just in case you forget to use video tapes in your camera, a wedding planner whose brother shoots wedding videos(and they chose you to video the wedding instead), open bar all night, kids welcome(and encouraged to run around so the parents can focus on the open bar), a DJ who is dressed similar to my avitar(and just loves the WMCA & Chicken Dance....ohhhh and does he love country music), the mean old church lady(who wants to be out garage sale'n but has to be at this wedding watching over you), the minister/priest that forces you to shoot everything from the balcony, and the you were hired by the parents of the groom(the bride and groom can't stand video cameras)....ALL AT THE SAME WEDDING..........THIS WOULD BE A AWSOME DAY COMPARED TO MY EXTREAMLY HIGH STRESS DAY JOB AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE TO WORK WITH EVERY DAY.........ANY QUESTIONS???????? Pirate

Seriously, it is a very good tension release except for the few bad apple weddings, with the benefits a making a little extra cash. Wink

(This post was edited by cowboy13 on Mar 27, 2008, 9:51 PM)

RustyB
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 10:47 PM

Post #48 of 50 (646 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cowboy13] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

...Seriously, it is a very good tension release except for the few bad apple weddings, with the benefits a making a little extra cash. Wink

Heck yeah! I think wedding video is WAY more suited for part time work. I used to LOVE to make wedding videos for extra $$$. It was essentially pure profit, and I used the money to buy new cameras...or just to party like a rock star for a weekend road trip.

Now that I've grown up slightly and been self-employed for a while, if I went back to having a "day job" with benefits, I'd jack my prices way up for wedding videos, and put all the revenue from video into an ING Direct savings account. Heck, you could just do a few weddings a year, working a couple of extra days a month, and buy a new car with cash in a few months...buy a brand new house with cash in a few years...then just let the cash build up for retirement or blow it trying to start a REAL business. Wasting your time doing wedding video part time, just so you can blow the money on fuggin' new cameras, toys, and other BS electronics is so mindblowingly ignorant! Live and learn! Part timers should be rolling in the money.

faith poison films
it's better than nothing

Brackish
Veteran

Mar 28, 2008, 5:40 AM

Post #49 of 50 (609 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cowboy13] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

kids welcome (and encouraged to run around so the parents can focus on the open bar), a DJ who is dressed similar to my avitar (and just loves the YMCA & Chicken Dance ... the mean old church lady(who wants to be out garage sale'n but has to be at this wedding watching over you)

And that's probably true about the church lady: missing out on her rummage sales. Laugh

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Mark Foley
Veteran

Mar 29, 2008, 4:26 AM

Post #50 of 50 (502 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Recession? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

What I don't understand is why anyone in such a position would even bother taking on a part-time job. I know I wouldn't touch this line of work if I were in the position you describe.

I would counter that I would never choose this line of work for full time if all I was wanting to do was generate profit. Granted there are some who make a great living out of full time wedding video and I admire their obvious succesful business plan. If only profit was a goal, there are far more lucrative endeavors requiring far less work and generate exponentially more income.

I'm own of those part timers who already has a military retirement pension, a paid-way-to-much day job doing the same thing I did as active duty, cheap health care...blah...blah...blah.... I do this because I love it...with all of its warts and all....

_________________________
Mark

1 2

View All