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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Stirring up the Z7 Pot

 
 


brucecleveland
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Apr 29, 2008, 8:37 AM

Post #1 of 17 (967 views)
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Stirring up the Z7 Pot Can't Post
Ok I have been thinking. Been a while since I have seen a controversial post, so here goes.

I got a Sony Z7 a couple of months back. I have been very happy with this camera. It is fun to shoot with, controls all seem to be layed out thoughtfully and it is a whiz to shoot in total manual mode. CF recordings are brought easily into FCP, thanks the Sony plugin that came out. It is not a perfect camera, and maybe I am just easily pleased, but I really like the camera.

So these are all the feelings I would have if I never read any of the problem threads that have been posted since the day the Z7 came out. Either I am not picky enough, or some other people are way too picky is yet to be seen. Just about all of the problems that have been reported about this camera are issues that I would have never ever noticed, had it not been for people reporting them. What does this mean? I don't know. If I was not a part of the VU community, I would be blissfully happy. Are they really big problems if I would have never noticed them? Some of the issues people are now reporting are getting beyond nonsense in my opinion. On the DVI forum someone recently reported Chromatic Aberrations. What the heck is this?? Maybe I am just a hack cause I never heard of this before. I don't know but it seems like the line between legitimate issues and pickiness are being blurred. Am I the only Sony Z7 user that is mostly happy with the new camera?

I realize that a couple of people have really worked hard to get resolves to these issues and I certainly do not mean to trivialize what they have been trying to accomplish. If there are truly problems with this camera and Sony says they will fix them, then that will be a different story. A couple of the issues talked about I am not sure if I have really seen, so I would have to really have to have an Ah Hah moment before I even send mine in.

Also a bit troublesome is that there have only been a handful of Z7 owners that even talk about the camera. Are most of the people happy?? Maybe they just don't read the Z7 issue posts.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


Ron Priest
Veteran


Apr 29, 2008, 9:28 AM

Post #2 of 17 (952 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
I don't have the Z7, but I was saving up for it before I heard of the problems. I'm now thinking about just going with a couple FX1's for now simply to get my feet in the door as far as HD and widescreen goes. I can almost buy 2 FX1's for the price of one Z7, and it would take me a while longer before I could purchase a 2nd Z7 and I really need the weddings I shoot this year to be 16:9 format for demos next year.

So tell me Bruce, is the low light capability really that much better with the Z7 versus the FX1/Z1, or is it something I can live without? I sure don't want to spend $5500 and have a camera that doesn't focus properly.
___________________
Ron


brucecleveland
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Apr 29, 2008, 9:37 AM

Post #3 of 17 (949 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
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I don't have the Z7, but I was saving up for it before I heard of the problems. I'm now thinking about just going with a couple FX1's for now simply to get my feet in the door as far as HD and widescreen goes. I can almost buy 2 FX1's for the price of one Z7, and it would take me a while longer before I could purchase a 2nd Z7 and I really need the weddings I shoot this year to be 16:9 format for demos next year.

So tell me Bruce, is the low light capability really that much better with the Z7 versus the FX1/Z1, or is it something I can live without? I sure don't want to spend $5500 and have a camera that doesn't focus properly.
Ron I have not had any experience with the FX1/Z1. I thought the low light quality on my Z7 was pretty decent. I did shoot an event last week that was in pretty low light. The footage is on the grainy side, but no worse than my 170 would have been in similar light. I see there is an FX1 on the trading post.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


MLiebergot
Veteran


Apr 29, 2008, 9:54 AM

Post #4 of 17 (932 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
Ron, I have seen both in action, and Glimmer has used all of the Sony cameras (except FX1 as he used Z1's).
The FX1 and Z1 are virtually identical cameras. save a few features like XLR (manual audio control), some additional menu settings, and black stretch. The only thing that gives the Z1 the edge in low light (by a little bit) is the black stretch feature (which helps to separate some of the grays/blacks in the shadow detail).

Now the Z7 is about 1 1/2 stops better in low light than the Z1, and you can see it. It's not dramatic to me, but is to some.
All of the complaints that I have seen and heard, to me are trivial, with the exception of the focus blurring issue with the lens. This to me will cause problems when a client views this on their HD sets. The funny thing is that according to Glimmer this problem is only happening with the U.S. serial numbers and not the Canadian serial numbers (like Shane). So there's a problem with the lens in U.S. plants if you ask me.

As usual Sony is dragging their feet on a known problem.
But I have no doubt that Sony will eventually fix this problem. It just might not be immediate. The same thing happened with the PD170 after its initial release.

Anyway, for your needs Ron the FX1 should do just fine, and I don't think there's any need to dump money into a Z7. Especially if you need 2 or more cameras.
The FX1 isn't the greatest camera ever invented, but it is rock solid and a real winner. The proof is that it's still in demand and being produced by Sony (who already dropped their FX7).

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Ron Priest
Veteran


Apr 29, 2008, 10:01 AM

Post #5 of 17 (929 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Michael, I appreciate your input.
___________________
Ron


glimmer
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Apr 29, 2008, 10:24 AM

Post #6 of 17 (912 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
I have been posting updates on the DVI forums and not here anymore as no one seems to respond or care....I, and others, have noticed several issues with the Z7 and while they may not be the worst things in the world, depending on the application, it can separate the difference between a quality shoot or a huge waste of time and loss of dollars. We can all be picky about everything to now apparent end, finding ways to complain, misconstrue, or whatever else, about anything. Take the Z7....I think the scroll wheel and manual controls should be on the back of the camera as the current location is hard to use when compared to the Z1U...but it's something I have to deal with as a lot of users don't seem to have taken that path of migration.

I'll be getting my camera(s) back today or tomorrow and will report on DVI how it performs, as well as updates on the issues and what owners can do. I have spent countless hours on the phone, email, forums, etc. to get these issues resolved, and, slowly but surely, they are getting fixed. But, for all of those that I know have the cameras, only a handful are partaking on fixing things and helping with this, and it's too difficult in some instances with gathering needed information.


John K.
Veteran / Moderator


Apr 29, 2008, 10:42 AM

Post #7 of 17 (904 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
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I have spent countless hours on the phone, email, forums, etc. to get these issues resolved, and, slowly but surely, they are getting fixed.

I think it's absurd that any consumer who pays big bucks for a NEW camera should have to do this, let alone a videographer having to play guinea pig to Sony; a huge billion dollar company - 100% unacceptable and outrageous. I'd be livid to say the least and hound them big-time for some form of compensation or some significant discount offer if you were to buy another camera from one of their reps.

John


glimmer
Veteran

Apr 29, 2008, 10:55 AM

Post #8 of 17 (891 views)
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Re: [John K.] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
completely agree....and i've been updating as soon as i get info...but me versus a massive conglomerate is tons of fun!

one of the problems, though, is i've posted so much on what owners should do and out of hundreds, not even ten did it.....until they do, very little will get done.


(This post was edited by glimmer on Apr 29, 2008, 10:56 AM)


brucecleveland
Veteran


Apr 29, 2008, 11:13 AM

Post #9 of 17 (879 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
I have been posting updates on the DVI forums and not here anymore as no one seems to respond or care....I, and others, have noticed several issues with the Z7 and while they may not be the worst things in the world, depending on the application, it can separate the difference between a quality shoot or a huge waste of time and loss of dollars. We can all be picky about everything to now apparent end, finding ways to complain, misconstrue, or whatever else, about anything. Take the Z7....I think the scroll wheel and manual controls should be on the back of the camera as the current location is hard to use when compared to the Z1U...but it's something I have to deal with as a lot of users don't seem to have taken that path of migration.

I'll be getting my camera(s) back today or tomorrow and will report on DVI how it performs, as well as updates on the issues and what owners can do. I have spent countless hours on the phone, email, forums, etc. to get these issues resolved, and, slowly but surely, they are getting fixed. But, for all of those that I know have the cameras, only a handful are partaking on fixing things and helping with this, and it's too difficult in some instances with gathering needed information.
Marshall I hope you are counting me in the small amount of people that have acknowledged the issues you have brought up and I know it seems sometimes I am talking out of both sides of my mouth. It is very interesting the small percent of people that have responded to these issues. As I have posted though, I am not even sure if I would have found anything wrong with this camera had it not been for the forums. So I don't know if they are that big of a problem for me or not. I will certainly continue to back you on this and do whatever you suggest as far as adding a voice to Sony. I have been monitoring DVI for you posts too. Thanks again and it will be interesting to see what Sony did.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


glimmer
Veteran

Apr 29, 2008, 11:20 AM

Post #10 of 17 (872 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
They apparently replaced my lenses. To me, that's a huge thing. I'll post as soon as I get my stuff back.


brucecleveland
Veteran


Apr 29, 2008, 11:25 AM

Post #11 of 17 (868 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
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They apparently replaced my lenses. To me, that's a huge thing. I'll post as soon as I get my stuff back.
Yes a complete lens replacement would be very big. I would be all over that.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


Scott Brooks
Veteran

Apr 29, 2008, 3:09 PM

Post #12 of 17 (781 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
Count me in as someone that probably wouldn't have picked up on the lens issue had it not been brought to the forums.

It's hard to figure out just how many people have purchased the Z7 and how many even are aware that there could be a potential flaw in the lens. Having left weva several years ago, I don't know if they've had any discussions on their forums or not. Right now DVinfo seems to have the most activity that I've seen regarding any issues.

It's too bad that some of us will have to return the camera, but it's good to know that (for now) it looks like Sony is going to step up and fix the problem.

So far I like the camera ... but I'm still working on finding a workflow ... which will probably show up in another post at some time.


KevinShaw
Veteran

Apr 29, 2008, 10:52 PM

Post #13 of 17 (714 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
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Having left weva several years ago, I don't know if they've had any discussions on their forums or not.

The main guy talking about the Z7 on the WEVA forums seems to be totally happy with it, and I believe he bought four of them. I think there's been some discussion of rolling shutter issues, but that's about it.


glimmer
Veteran

Apr 29, 2008, 11:50 PM

Post #14 of 17 (700 views)
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Re: [KevinShaw] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
Are you referring to Gary? I know he's happy with them. I stopped posting b/c I don't have membership right now. I'm still on the fence about renewing, but who knows....$170 or whatever it is can get some much needed 'other' stuff. Hmm.


Sandy B
Veteran


Apr 30, 2008, 12:49 AM

Post #15 of 17 (694 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
Bruce,

I got a Z7 and S270, and these are super cameras. I started with two PD170's which I still have and use on certain gigs.

The presets are cool, the iris ring is too. The audio controls are accessible. And the ability to record on CF and tape is awesome.

I am getting use to the the shoulder mount camera and it has made tremendous impact on my being. I haven't used it on a wedding yet, just on the commercial videos.

Both cameras don't have the out-of-focus issue, but they do have the jump if you touch the zoom thing accidentally, just learning not to touch the zoom thingy.

I am glad I waited for the Z7. However, adding a EX1 to my camera equipment list later this summer is going to be awesome, too.

Twitter - Sandy Buller
SSPBLOG





RT Steele
Veteran


Apr 30, 2008, 8:05 AM

Post #16 of 17 (655 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
They apparently replaced my lenses. To me, that's a huge thing. I'll post as soon as I get my stuff back.
So, has Sony then confirmed your (and Bruce O.'s.) findings on this "focus" issue? Were they able to replicate the problem? I just hope they didn't merely replace the stock glass with more of the same.

- RT


KevinShaw
Veteran

Apr 30, 2008, 10:26 AM

Post #17 of 17 (638 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Stirring up the Z7 Pot [In reply to] Can't Post
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Are you referring to Gary? I know he's happy with them. I stopped posting b/c I don't have membership right now. I'm still on the fence about renewing, but who knows....$170 or whatever it is can get some much needed 'other' stuff. Hmm.

Yeah, it's Gary. I'm a little surprised he hasn't commented on any of the Z7's foibles, but I guess they haven't bothered him. As far as the WEVA forums are concerned they've been rather sparse lately, but every once in a good comment pops up.