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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!!

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Loi Banh
Novice

Nov 10, 2004, 3:14 PM

Post #26 of 138 (2729 views)
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Re: [mtiffee] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

It's now accessible at http://www.euioa.com/mt/

Thanks Mike!

mtiffee
Novice

Nov 10, 2004, 3:22 PM

Post #27 of 138 (2721 views)
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Re: [Morris] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

The GOP on the FX-1 is 15 frames so dropout can cause up to 1/2 second of freezing. That's why SONY released the HDV tapes. $13.99 @ B&H. I've been using the SONY premium tapes and haven't seen any dropouts yet. I did order 10 HDV tapes though and plan on using those.

Sony uses wet lubricant on their tapes so you should stick with those when using the FX-1.

szerangue
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 4:05 PM

Post #28 of 138 (2689 views)
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Re: [Loi Banh] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I will have to admit, that is some amazing footage. I played it using MediaPlayer9 in fullscreen mode and the clarity was amazing. Each hair on your hand was clearly visible. Thanks for the post.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Robert
Enthusiast

Nov 10, 2004, 5:31 PM

Post #29 of 138 (2654 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

A NLE that edits HD IS available at a reasonable cost.....Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.0

(This post was edited by Robert on Nov 10, 2004, 5:37 PM)

belsokar
User

Nov 10, 2004, 5:46 PM

Post #30 of 138 (2645 views)
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Re: [Loi Banh] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Absolutely beautiful footage! Thanks for posting...I definitely look forward to seeing more footage as it becomes available...like others have stated,...anything edited, anything color corrected,...etc, would be great

I think a great comparison right now would be to compare the following:

1. Vx/pd shot footage, color corrected, minimal effects
2. fx-1 footage, color corrected, minimal effects, shot in HDV, then downconverted to dv
3. fx-1 footage, color corrected, minimal effects, shot in DV

Since as many have stated already, there is no common (in every home) delivery format yet for HD, it would be nice to see how this camera performs when just trying to deliver in todays standards...If shooting in HDV, and downconverting to SD proves to be better than the current crop of cameras, if even by just a small margin, then it definitely makes it worth it to me (I realize this is not the case for others)...While many people may not have HD sets yet,...I'm sure a selling point to clients could be to future-proof one's self by capturing and editing in high definition and delivering on DVD...you can always store a HDV master on DV tape if they ever want to upgrade...again, just ideas, for now, I'm happy with the footage I'm seeing,...

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 5:59 PM

Post #31 of 138 (2635 views)
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Re: [mtiffee] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I want to make sure I'm clear on a few things. First, if you shoot in SD mode then the footage is recorded in standard DV that is editable in any NLE without any extra plug-ins. Second, is the footage captured in native 16:9 in DV mode? Third, does the camera do the downconversion in camera by software and how?

Emilio Chavez
User

Nov 10, 2004, 9:06 PM

Post #32 of 138 (2581 views)
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Re: [Robert] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

A NLE that edits HD IS available at a reasonable cost.....Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.0

But is it realtime?

szerangue
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 9:14 PM

Post #33 of 138 (2577 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

The camera will allow you to shoot in DV using either true 16:9 or 4:3. If you shoot in DV, then everything is the same as far as capture and editing, it is SD. There is some talk that the footage actually, in this mode, is worse than the VX2100 and the PD170. If you shoot in HDV, you capture this as you would the footage shot in DV. This is where it gets sticky. You will need an NLE that will allow you to edit HDV. Apparently there are packages on the market already and others will soon arrive, e.g. Canopus SP for HDV. In order to be successful at it, however, you will need more than your standard P4 2.3ghz processor. More like a dual XEON processor, a gig of memory, and some type of High Def monitor for editing. With all of that, it is said that you will then be able to downconvert the HDV movie into SD that you will be able to deliver on DVD. This option is supposed to deliver a better picture, if only slightly, than the VX2100 and the PD170.
This is my understanding at the moment. The main point here is that without the computer horsepower, the HD monitor, and the HDV editing software... you will only be able to shoot in DV mode for production.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Emilio Chavez
User

Nov 10, 2004, 9:19 PM

Post #34 of 138 (2572 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I can vouch for the increase in CPU horsepower as when attempting to add any filters to FX-1 footage, I was only getting around 3-5 frames rendered per minute with an AMD XP 2200+.

szerangue
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 9:27 PM

Post #35 of 138 (2565 views)
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Re: [Emilio Chavez] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yep, thats a big issue. Here are the minimum requirements from Canopus for their HDV editing system (Edius SP for H|DV ):

Intel� Pentium� 4 3.0GHz processor or faster (Intel Xeon� 3.2GHz dual processors recommended,
Hyper-Threading supported)
� 1GB RAM
� One free PCI 64-bit/66MHz slot (rev. 2.2) *
� One free PCI 32-bit/33MHz slot (rev. 2.2)
� 800MB free disk space
� Ultra SCSI 160 or better
� Graphics card with hardware-based DirectDraw overlay and 32-bit color display at a
1024x768 resolution
� Windows� XP Professional (Service Pack 1 or later)
� DirectX 9.0 or later
� Soundcard
� Internet connection for activation
� CD/DVD Re-Writer

Dell could not even quote this box, but had something with a little less horsepower for $2000

Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 9:32 PM

Post #36 of 138 (2560 views)
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Re: [Emilio Chavez] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I can vouch for the increase in CPU horsepower as when attempting to add any filters to FX-1 footage, I was only getting around 3-5 frames rendered per minute with an AMD XP 2200+.

Ouch! That's the real dinger: render times. I'll hold out until Apple releases a Quad processor G5.

gl
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 10:23 PM

Post #37 of 138 (2543 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

After investigating this I am now convinced that real way to deal with this format is to just treat it like HD and not DV. Buy the HD editing tools, get a disk array of SATA drives.

First, my reason for editing HD style instead of HDV native - compression . This format is not only highly compressed, it's compressed using a compression scheme that is unfriendly to multiple passes. If you edit native, you will send this footage through at least 3 compression runs (Initial capture, Final render, Distribution). This will not look good in the end. You will end up with more artifacting and noise. So, I say just give it up and get serious about it - go HD.

From my preliminary findings, If I were building a post setup for HDV I would set it up the same as I would for Panasonic HD(mac biased of course):

Dual G5
FCP HD
Blackmagic HD card ($595) using the DVCPRO100 codec
SATA-based raid

(BTW I could setup a similar setup for the PC pretty easily. The only missing factors are the acceleration from the BMD card in either PPro or Vegas and the cool Panasonic Codec)

I then would edit the whole thing in HD and then if I wanted to down-covert to SD I would use the SDI output from the BMD card and rent a deck like either a DVCAM with SDI input or the Panasonic 1200 HD deck and make dubs off of that.

Sound like a mess? Not at all. It's actually better than I was thinking it would be. Aside from storage (which is really cheap considering), I think most folk would feel like they were not that far off from before. You would be able to work in 10 bit colorspace and get some awesome CC results - assuming you can look past the noise in the FX1 image which I see plenty of ;)

gl

�Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.� ~ Abraham Lincoln

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 10:47 PM

Post #38 of 138 (2524 views)
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Re: [GL] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

more money. more money. more money.....

I'll wait until clients start asking for it.

I went to a local videographers association meeting the other night and nobody is even considering HD at this time. Most have just started offering DVD...

Robert
Enthusiast

Nov 10, 2004, 10:48 PM

Post #39 of 138 (2523 views)
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Re: [Emilio Chavez] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've honestly not tried it Emilio,

I have LE and it does realtime preview with RENDERING in the background.

It does the same for HD.... but obviously the power of your computer system will determine the realtime capabilities.

If I am doing multiple layers on DV footage I've run 8 layers with no problem. HD being a different beast....... well obviously I wouldn't get 8.

And it is VERY AFFORDABLE.

regards,
Robert

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 10:55 PM

Post #40 of 138 (2516 views)
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Re: [Robert] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

And it is VERY AFFORDABLE.

regards,
Robert

Let's see:

$8-10,000 on new cameras (you need at least 2 for professional purposes)
$3,000 on new editing hardware (at least)

...and still no viable way to distribute to the client in the end. How many DVHS decks have actually been sold?

Have fun with your toy.

(This post was edited by Mathew on Nov 10, 2004, 10:57 PM)

bideoguy
User

Nov 10, 2004, 10:56 PM

Post #41 of 138 (2517 views)
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Re: [Robert] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think its worth it to get the FX1. You are going to still be able to shoot in NON HD mode with this camera and also offer people in time a HD version plus wide screen shooting will look a lot better. A lot of people have widescreen tv's even if they arent HD compatible. Also, just my a marketing standpoint alone, when you advertise "Offering High Definition Weddings, etc" you will have the edge over the competition.

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 10:58 PM

Post #42 of 138 (2516 views)
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Re: [bideoguy] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

"Offering High Definition Weddings, etc" you will have the edge over the competition.

If your clients care that is. I guess we'll start finding out in the next year.

bideoguy
User

Nov 10, 2004, 11:01 PM

Post #43 of 138 (2513 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Even if they don't care, just by saying your video production studio has the HD capabilities, will put out a good image. Just my opinion.

gl
Veteran

Nov 10, 2004, 11:02 PM

Post #44 of 138 (2510 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, I would say that only those who like the latest and greatest or those who are thinking of offering work for corporate or broadcast as well would want to get into it.

It is doable however. I thought it would be helpful to show how to do it reliably.

gl

�Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.� ~ Abraham Lincoln

DVideography
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Nov 11, 2004, 12:07 AM

Post #45 of 138 (2494 views)
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John McG
User

Nov 11, 2004, 12:34 AM

Post #46 of 138 (2472 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

$8-10,000 on new cameras (you need at least 2 for professional purposes)
$3,000 on new editing hardware (at least)

...and still no viable way to distribute to the client in the end. How many DVHS decks have actually been sold?

Have fun with your toy.

I guess I'm a big kid because I just got off the phone ordring this new "toy". Now while I wouldn't recommend buying to replace good working cameras you already own, I think it's short sighted not to give this camera a close look if you in the market for a new camera as I was.

I'm a little confused about some people on this boards attitude about this camera. While I'm relatively new to the wedding buisness, I have been in video production professionally for over twenty years and in that time I've seen a lot of changes in the technology. I heard the same comments from the "snobby broadcast" people I have worked with about products like the VX1000 when it came out. Those people have either changed their tune about these "toys" or they are they are working in another profession. From talking to the old timers in the buisness the very same things you are saying were said about color TV forty years ago.

Also you don't have to jump into "full" HD wedding production right away. This is a very good DV camera in it's own right especially if you want to shoot wide screen. I myself am looking into shooting one camera HD and building a special HD highlight montage from the one camera and down converting that footage to SD for the rest of the video. To me the real benefit of Wedding videos are 10, 15, 20 years or more into the future for the bride and groom and I want them to have something with a little longer shelf life. I expect HD wedding videos will be here sooner than you think and if you want to stay competetive you better keep a close eye on it. It's going to sneek up on you.

In short. I was going to buy a camera, probably a PD-170. For about $400 more I got one that does HDV. People in the industry that I respect highly were buying this camera and raving about it. For me it was no brainer. You do what you think is best.

gl
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 12:40 AM

Post #47 of 138 (2469 views)
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Re: [DVideography] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dave,

If you plan to edit HDV *natively* in FCP you should wait awhile - not that you have a choice. If you want to put some money into it then it's probably ready now. It will cost you between $3 - 5,000 to do it which is very cheap by HD standards.

gl

�Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.� ~ Abraham Lincoln

Mathew
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 12:53 AM

Post #48 of 138 (2461 views)
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Re: [John McG] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have no problem with you jumping in. However it's important to remember the expense of changing formats. I don't consider buying one HDV camera and then not even being able to deliver an HD DVD to the client a very good business decision.

I think we're all looking forward to seeing the first wedding footage shot with this camera. Anything besides 10 second shots of flowers and some guys hand in front of the ocean.

Daniel
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 2:05 AM

Post #49 of 138 (2438 views)
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Re: [Loi Banh] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

What do I play this on?

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

mjeppsen
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 2:15 AM

Post #50 of 138 (2433 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Both WMP9 & VLC Media Player play it for me.

Matt Jeppsen
www.FreshDV.com

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