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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!!

 

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Mathew
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 3:39 PM

Post #76 of 138 (2733 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I see what you're saying and I agree that the most practical solution is to just shoot in DV mode for the time being. However it seems like such a waste to shoot in standard DV with an HD camera. I'd rather wait for a complete solution before jumping in.

I dunno, if it were me and I were shooting half of my weddings with DSR570s I would of bought one by now. I still see it being a viable camera for the next few years.


Brian Coe
User


Nov 11, 2004, 3:47 PM

Post #77 of 138 (2728 views)
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Re: [eagle eye] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Eagle eye,

No we would use the HDV VCR , just like today where we take along a DVCAM VCR; we do not use the cameras as they are busy filming the reaction of the wedding couple and guests.

We generally put the full length version of the projection on the dvd, but during the reception coverage we put short extracts of the projection with bride and MOB reactions, generally a mixture of tears and laughter!

Brian
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com


Brian Coe
User


Nov 11, 2004, 4:00 PM

Post #78 of 138 (2719 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mat, I agree about the viablility of the DSR570 and we plan to continue using them for our corporate work.

My decision to rent rather than buy is a business one, I prefer to invest in editing, projection, and other non camera gear. Besides some weekends in summer during the height of the season, we use as many as 7 rental cameras as well as our own two. Our high end packages are with 3 cameras (typically 2 DSR570 and one PD150 for the Glidecam.)

We are based in Paris and we pay about 105 $ for the DSR570 for the weekend so the economics are pretty much in favour of rental.

Brian

PS We are NOT the infamous 8000$ Paris videographer refered to in other posts ! !Cool
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com


Sparky
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 4:09 PM

Post #79 of 138 (2711 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing I've noticed coming up in a few threads is the archiving and then selling the HD version later on. Now ... while in theory it sounds great I just don't have any faith that this will actually produce money.

I remember when DVD came out ... on all the video forums the rage was that we can now contact old customers and offer to transfer their wedding on DVD. You know what ... all the posts after that said they couldn't give them away. I never read of anyone that was successful ... the "thrill" was gone for the bride and groom.

Now I'm pretty ignorant about all this HD stuff and really shakey on technical issues, so I'm not even going to try and act like I should have any opinions on those issues. However, I don't think anyone should be purchasing a camera based on the thought they "might" make more money by contacting former clients.

On the other hand ... I would love to shoot 16:9 and if that's what I was going to do, then I would gladly pay the extra cash for the camera as opposed to purchasing some type of lens for my PD-150.


memorytracks
Veteran


Nov 11, 2004, 4:38 PM

Post #80 of 138 (2703 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Na, I don't really like the idea of having to revisit all my projects in 2 years either, but I would just offer the HDV-quality version on a PC-playable DVD (autorun a data format DVD) + SD DVD for now and if they want it on blu-ray or whatever later they could order it then. They can't say I didn't deliver HDV because I did with the PC-version.
I'm stretching here I know on advertising "HDV" but TV is not the only final playback device. If a bride doesn't want HDV at all...fine, I'll go DV widescreen. But with the FX-1 camera at least I've got the option.

Anyway, I keep an archive of the final video on DV tape anyway. If it's in DV or HDV format I don't care.

I guess in my limited experience I've dealt quite a bit with the grooms as well as the brides so they know about the widescreen, HD(V) quality, etc. Plus I'm located in the Silicon Valley and it seems like everyone around here has the $$, the stuff, and knows how to use it.

I also like the idea of having an HDV-res DEMO on DVD/CD for potential couples to play on their computer. (wow factor)

Thing is.. for me, I need to get a camera anyway, and the FX-1 would cover all ends, now and for the future. I realize it's at the expense of no XLR inputs and 2 lux ratings lower versus going with a PD170 which is my next choice. I think the footage looks great in low light regardless AND my microphones currently are 1/8" anyway (shreik) and they sound terrific.

Thanks for dogging the FX-1 Mathew seriously, it's all food for thought to me.


-Dave Graton
MemoryTracks Films


Morris
Enthusiast


Nov 11, 2004, 5:39 PM

Post #81 of 138 (2687 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mathew, I agree with your views. It doesn't seem to make sense to pay $3699 for a FX1 to shoot SD now, when a VX2100 goes for $2330 (bhphotovideo prices), a difference of $1369, only to get less sharp video, with one to two stops worse low light (videomaker 11/2004). Seems investing $961 more with the $1369 savings to buy a second or third VX2100 or maybe $500 more for a video projector and screen would be better investments.

If one shoots in HDV mode to offer SD now and "possible" future HDV upgrades, there is the risk of up to 1/2 second of freezing or mosaics due to MPEG2 dropouts and $13 - $17 per HDV tape. Then the HDV edits with beta software with longgg renders. Then another long render to convert the edited HDV footage to SD to put on a DVD. Does one have that much extra time for a "possible" sale of an HDV upgrade later? ..... Not to mention 3 times more hard drive space, top of the line computer, HD external monitor, etc.

I've offered VHS to DVD upgrades (edit: I've offered DVD upgrades from SVHS or miniDV masters to replace VHS copies) to all of my past clients and very few have responded. I wonder what other videographers have experienced with this? ..... So how many clients would want to pay for a HDV upgrade in a few years when the impact of their event has worn off and they are really happy with the quality of the DVD that they already have?

Regarding the extra presets and features of the FX1, I doubt that the majority of the videographers who post on this forum will use them. From the posts I read many are struggling with exposure, focus and audio as it is. I bet many run their cameras in full auto rather than in full manual, due to lack of familiarity and proficiency. Believe me I'm not putting anyone down as I've been there and done that. It does take time to develop familiarity and proficiency, the amount of time depending on the effort expended.

Like you, I'm not against the HDV format. Just that the FX1 is premature for "wedding and event videographers" without a mass distribution media. In a couple of years when the NLE software bugs have been worked out and HD sets and media are mainstream "with clients", then by all means. Maybe start a savings fund now for when that day comes.

Morris


(This post was edited by Morris on Nov 11, 2004, 9:00 PM)


Mathew
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 5:43 PM

Post #82 of 138 (2685 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34705


Quote
In standard def the pictures are remakably similar to those from my much more expensive DSR570


Hmm...I might want to change my stance on the issue Wink

Let's see some standard def from this camera.


Mathew
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 5:56 PM

Post #83 of 138 (2681 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=sony;action=display;num=1100107659;start=15


Quote
Sony very carefully showed the group very specific footage and for good reason, any movement with this format is disastrous. One shot of a locked down tripod showed a street scene with some folks walking at camera and others mingling. The girl walking toward camera was blurred by a strobish effect and this was 60i footage. At one point someone slightly hit the tripod and a black and white sign on a phone booth suddenly showed horrible vertical smear. A very slow zoom out at one point to demonstrate the 12x lens showed horrible stuttering effect but not in the entire frame, only around where 4:3 TV safety would be vertically, and the zoom was very slow. They showed a close up of a parrot but his feathers were making a very strange moire.


Hmmm...sounds like he saw what I saw in some of that first footage of the Tokyo night life. Static shots are fine but introduce motion and the compression falls apart.


(This post was edited by Mathew on Nov 11, 2004, 5:58 PM)


Mathew
Veteran

Nov 11, 2004, 6:04 PM

Post #84 of 138 (2672 views)
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Re: [Morris] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Maybe start a savings fund now for when that day comes.

Morris


No kidding. I just put a deposit down on a new house for next year and in no way can I think about buying equipment that can't pay for itself immediately.


szerangue
Veteran


Nov 11, 2004, 8:24 PM

Post #85 of 138 (2635 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been on the fence about this camera for a long time now. Still am actually but the cost of the equipment is on the side of not affordable. To use this camera in HDV mode, Canopus has a turnkey system for $8000. That includes the hoss computer, specs available on request or can be obtained from Canopus Website, the Canopus SP card, all the needed software including Edius Pro. I believe this price does not include a DVD burner, for 1K more you get another 1gb of memory and a burner. Then when you factor in the cost of the camera, at $3700, plus tripod, plus case, plus battery, etc... we are talking about $13,000 plus to produce HD video that cannot be delivered. Except on a PC playing it on MediaPlayer9. Also, remember, that just because you can deliver it on Windows media HD that does not guarantee the customer will have enough video horsepower to play it. My Notebook would not play the Windows Media HD samples until I upgraded the video card to 128mb.

Anyway, I would love to have it... if I do, however, I will be using it as a DV camera. The other option is to buy the computer equipment and software now, the edius software will allow editing in all formats and can even resample the DV footage into HDV, and then wait for the camera prices to drop and the bugs worked out.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


Morris
Enthusiast


Nov 11, 2004, 8:41 PM

Post #86 of 138 (2632 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
No kidding. I just put a deposit down on a new house for next year and in no way can I think about buying equipment that can't pay for itself immediately.

Mathew,
Congratulations on your new home! That's one of the best investments anyone can make. Like I tell my sons, if one pays $1000 rent per month for 10 years, thats $120,000 down the tubes which could have been in your pocket by owning. Plus the interest is deductible... Smile

One other thing regarding the FX1 that I just remembered regarding the days of switching to DV. What I wondered then was what if I'm shooting Hi8 and mastering to SVHS. Then an Uncle Charlie shoots the same thing I'm shooting with his new miniDV camera. We both put it on VHS tape and the couple compares his footage to my footage and both say "Wow! Uncle Charlie's video looks better than the pro's video!!". I'm wondering if that could happen with the FX1 in SD mode if an Uncle Charlie has a VX2100 and both give the couple a DVD.

Enjoy your new home,
Morris


(This post was edited by Morris on Nov 11, 2004, 8:42 PM)


Brackish
Veteran


Nov 11, 2004, 10:09 PM

Post #87 of 138 (2605 views)
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szerangue
Veteran


Nov 11, 2004, 10:14 PM

Post #88 of 138 (2603 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, I believe that is an issue that has been overlooked.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


mtiffee
Novice

Nov 11, 2004, 11:56 PM

Post #89 of 138 (2583 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

WMHD plays great on my laptop which is a 1.4 centrino. My video card is a 64MB.


Mathew
Veteran

Nov 12, 2004, 12:15 AM

Post #90 of 138 (2570 views)
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Re: [Morris] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Mathew,
Congratulations on your new home! That's one of the best investments anyone can make. Like I tell my sons, if one pays $1000 rent per month for 10 years, thats $120,000 down the tubes which could have been in your pocket by owning. Plus the interest is deductible... Smile
Enjoy your new home,
Morris


Thank you. It's a new house and it should be completed around March-April next year. I've lived at home the past few years and have accumulated some wealth to get me going. Of course it's never enough especially with all of these darn equipment purchases. I rented before in Chicago and was paying $900 a month. I decided after that I would just slog it out by living with my parents until everything came together.


TekVideo
Novice


Nov 12, 2004, 12:59 AM

Post #91 of 138 (2552 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yep, thats a big issue. Here are the minimum requirements from Canopus for their HDV editing system (Edius SP for H|DV ):




True.. It's quite steep. It's VERY powerful though! We captured and edited the Sony HDV footage from the FX1 yesterday and the results were amazing. Edius Pro 3 with the SP-HDV card ($4000) played 4 layers back in RT. Not RT "preview".. We're talking RT out to a HD monitor! We had 3 PIPs over background video all 1080i and it looked INCREDIBLE!
I don't know of another solution on the market that'll compete with that! P-Pro? RT Preview and wasn't that powerful even with the blackmagic card.. Vegas? Again.. choppy RT preview.


Canopus will also be releasing a "Storm" class HDV card soon. Rumor has it it'll be around $1200 (but you didn't hear it from me... hehe). The current SP for HDV card is the RexRT replacement with XLR audio in-out and a rack breakout box option.


---

______________________________________________
Michael Dontigney
-TekVideo
TekVideo Main Site


belsokar
User

Nov 12, 2004, 2:23 AM

Post #92 of 138 (2535 views)
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Re: [Mathew] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=sony;action=display;num=1100107659;start=15


Quote
Sony very carefully showed the group very specific footage and for good reason, any movement with this format is disastrous. One shot of a locked down tripod showed a street scene with some folks walking at camera and others mingling. The girl walking toward camera was blurred by a strobish effect and this was 60i footage. At one point someone slightly hit the tripod and a black and white sign on a phone booth suddenly showed horrible vertical smear. A very slow zoom out at one point to demonstrate the 12x lens showed horrible stuttering effect but not in the entire frame, only around where 4:3 TV safety would be vertically, and the zoom was very slow. They showed a close up of a parrot but his feathers were making a very strange moire.


Hmmm...sounds like he saw what I saw in some of that first footage of the Tokyo night life. Static shots are fine but introduce motion and the compression falls apart.



From what I've heard about real tests with this camera, it handles motion quite well...you can read some more detailed reviews at sonyhdvinfo.com, you'll have to search a bit, but someone was testing the image while panning, zooming, all sorts of quick motion, and didn't see nearly the video issues described above...I have also read other sources that say that the camera handles motion quite well...My guess is that issues are being introduced more in playback, or maybe even capture, I'm not really sure...I'll definitely hold out a bit longer to see the results as more and more people start posting clips...


Postal_Boy
Veteran


Nov 12, 2004, 3:29 AM

Post #93 of 138 (2525 views)
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Re: [Morris] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
No kidding. I just put a deposit down on a new house for next year and in no way can I think about buying equipment that can't pay for itself immediately.

Mathew,
Congratulations on your new home! That's one of the best investments anyone can make. Like I tell my sons, if one pays $1000 rent per month for 10 years, thats $120,000 down the tubes which could have been in your pocket by owning. Plus the interest is deductible... Smile


Well, that depends. I agree that owning CAN be better than renting, depending on interest, but it was just until recently that the "payoff" of owning became a benefit in less than 10 or 11 years. In other words, you may pay $120,000 over the 10 years, but only get about 30% of that back since the rest goes to interest. Therefore, you get $40k in equity. Granted, the longer you own it the more will go towards principle, but if you were to pay $1000/month for rent as opposed to $1500/month for a house payment, you could save $500/month that you aren't throwing into a house payment. $500/month is 6k/year - over 10 years, you save 60k in the bank rather than build 40k in equity...But with interest down, you break even in about 6 years I believe - so if you plan on being in it more than 5 or 6 years you are better off. That and house payments are much less now, so they are much closer to the rent cost.
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER


Morris
Enthusiast


Nov 12, 2004, 7:31 AM

Post #94 of 138 (2507 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Well, that depends. I agree that owning CAN be better than renting, depending on interest, but it was just until recently that the "payoff" of owning became a benefit in less than 10 or 11 years. In other words, you may pay $120,000 over the 10 years, but only get about 30% of that back since the rest goes to interest. Therefore, you get $40k in equity. Granted, the longer you own it the more will go towards principle, but if you were to pay $1000/month for rent as opposed to $1500/month for a house payment, you could save $500/month that you aren't throwing into a house payment. $500/month is 6k/year - over 10 years, you save 60k in the bank rather than build 40k in equity...But with interest down, you break even in about 6 years I believe - so if you plan on being in it more than 5 or 6 years you are better off. That and house payments are much less now, so they are much closer to the rent cost.


Plus appreciation for the home. Plus the longer one waits, the more expensive the purchase. Also, buying a home usually results in a change in attitude and life style. By that I mean folks stop or minimize greatly going out and spending like they used to and the focus shifts to the home. Also overboard charging of instant gratification items ending up with huge credit card debt at very high interest rates does not seem to be as important as it once was. Many folks don't have the will power to save $500/month while renting and will just spend it. But the home mortgage has to be paid no matter what which is like a forced savings. The real payoff is at retirement age when the home is paid off and there is no worry as to where one will be living with zero rent or mortgage. With renting all their lives, there can be a worry where to live unless proper retirement savings/investments were done. There can be many benefits in becoming a home owner.

Another thing I tell my sons is "The difference between a home owner and a renter is the down payment". It is worth the sacrifice for a few years to get that down payment.

Thanks, (and sorry), for this "very" off topic discussion,
Morris


szerangue
Veteran


Nov 12, 2004, 8:54 AM

Post #95 of 138 (2489 views)
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Re: [TekVideo] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am on board, Tek... just waiting to hear from your salesman now.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


Mathew
Veteran

Nov 12, 2004, 11:14 AM

Post #96 of 138 (2467 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just turned 30 so maybe buying a house was more of one of those decisions that goes with age. In my area a decent size 2 bedroom apartment is around $700 a month. That also doesn't get you a garage or a basement which are two necessities I see for my growing business. I could go on about the difficulties of running a business out of an apartment complex... Anyway after all is said and done my house payment will be around $1100, more expensive than rent for sure. But I'll have a basement, garage and hopefully the piece of mind that when I'm ready to move in 5 or more years that I'll build some equity. My only other decision was to rent for a year but I hate moving and interest rates are going up...

The biggest negative I see of buying a house is that you become a slave to it. I could of bought an older house cheaper but I know a few people who did and they always have matainance to do. With my business and working another job during the week I just won't have the time for that.

Regardless a lot depends on what part of the country you live in. My friend out in LA is currently making double I do and cannot even imagine being able to afford a house. He'll probably rent for as long as he lives out on the west coast.


Ron Priest
Veteran


May 9, 2008, 10:36 AM

Post #97 of 138 (601 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I'm usually at least 4 years behind the times (sometimes it's 10 years behind). Anyway, I'm just purchasing my first HD cam an FX1 (I didn't like the features of the EX1 so I went with the FX1 Wink

I found this old thread talking about everyones first impressions, and misconceptions concerning the then new FX1. Would be interesting to find out if everyone is still happy with this cam after 4 long years.
___________________
Ron - Live Chat - Studio Cam - Blog
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(This post was edited by Ron Priest on May 9, 2008, 11:36 AM)


Joel
Veteran


May 9, 2008, 11:28 AM

Post #98 of 138 (578 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a great thread...



In Reply To
Well, I'm usually at least 4 years behind the times (sometimes it's 10 years behind). Anyway, I just purchasing my first HD cam an FX1 (I didn't like the features of the EX1 so I went with the FX1 Wink

I found this old thread talking about everyones first impressions, and misconceptions concerning the then new FX1. Would be interesting to find out if everyone is still happy with this cam after 4 long years.


Joel


"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."


starting | perfectionists







Ron Priest
Veteran


May 9, 2008, 11:37 AM

Post #99 of 138 (574 views)
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Re: [Joel] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, there are people on here whom I have never herd of before. Where did they all go?
___________________
Ron - Live Chat - Studio Cam - Blog
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE
How to Adopt the 4Ever Logo


DGates
Veteran


May 9, 2008, 11:41 AM

Post #100 of 138 (570 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Stop what you're doing and go buy the FX-1!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yeah, there are people on here whom I have never herd of before. Where did they all go?


Many dropped out when the membership fee was implemented.

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