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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
The Bride wants HOW much of a refund?

X-Joe_A
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Nov 14, 2002, 7:46 PM

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The Bride wants HOW much of a refund?	Can't Post

A videographer acquaintence of mine (no, it wasn't ME this happened to!) recently was contracted to perfom a 1-camera ceremony where he would be stationed in the back (center aisle) of the church. (Church restrictions, etc, etc) He hooked the Groom up with a wireless lavalier mic, which he tested prior to the ceremony & it worked fine. When it came time for the vows, he switched over to use the wireless mic - he had been using the camera mic - , but it suffered from some bad "in & out" interference. He tried to fix the problem, but had to bail out and succumb to using the camera mic. Consequently, about 20 seconds of the vows are shot or otherwise unusable. (What I think happened was that he was so far back in the church that he was just out of range. Hindsight being 20/20, I can think of a couple of things that he could have done. First - have someone help him test the mic from the approximate place that the Groom was to stand with the videographer in the back of churchchecking the signal quality and to test the range. Or, if he had thought on his feet and been willing to bend the rules and perhaps come forward a bit down the center aisle to get closer to the area where the vows were taking place, the signal might have been a bit cleaner.)The rest of the job came out nice, though.
He only charges about $700 for a single camera edit(ceremony & reception), which puts him in the to lower end of the fees in our area. The Bride - who is obviously and understandably upset -wants $150 back from him. Not sure where she came up with the number, but here is my question: What is fair in this - or a similar instance? On a related note, does anyone out there have anything in their contract about responsibility (or lack thereof) for "equipment failure" or "technical problems?" (I plan on showing Ed - that's the videographer's name - whatever replies I receive. thanks in advance for your help.)

X-Paul_Holt
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Nov 14, 2002, 8:10 PM

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Re: The Bride wants HOW much of a refund?	Can't Post

Tell him to pay It!!! on bended knees.
Regards Paul Holt

: A videographer acquaintence of mine (no, it wasn't ME this happened to!) recently was contracted to perfom a 1-camera ceremony where he would be stationed in the back (center aisle) of the church. (Church restrictions, etc, etc) He hooked the Groom up with a wireless lavalier mic, which he tested prior to the ceremony & it worked fine. When it came time for the vows, he switched over to use the wireless mic - he had been using the camera mic - , but it suffered from some bad "in & out" interference. He tried to fix the problem, but had to bail out and succumb to using the camera mic. Consequently, about 20 seconds of the vows are shot or otherwise unusable. (What I think happened was that he was so far back in the church that he was just out of range. Hindsight being 20/20, I can think of a couple of things that he could have done. First - have someone help him test the mic from the approximate place that the Groom was to stand with the videographer in the back of churchchecking the signal quality and to test the range. Or, if he had thought on his feet and been willing to bend the rules and perhaps come forward a bit down the center aisle to get closer to the area where the vows were taking place, the signal might have been a bit cleaner.)The rest of the job came out nice, though.
: He only charges about $700 for a single camera edit(ceremony & reception), which puts him in the to lower end of the fees in our area. The Bride - who is obviously and understandably upset -wants $150 back from him. Not sure where she came up with the number, but here is my question: What is fair in this - or a similar instance? On a related note, does anyone out there have anything in their contract about responsibility (or lack thereof) for "equipment failure" or "technical problems?" (I plan on showing Ed - that's the videographer's name - whatever replies I receive. thanks in advance for your help.)

X-George_Loch
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Nov 14, 2002, 8:18 PM

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Re: The Bride wants HOW much of a refund? [In reply to]	Can't Post

weddings are a once in a lifetime event and the family hired this videographer to capture that. He dropped the ball by not being prepared with his equipment. He should consider himself lucky thatthey only want $150. That's cheap compared to what they lost. I know that 'we all make mistakes' but, they were paying him to capture that moment and he let them down. If I buy a car and it's missing a transmission I am not going to just say 'Oh well, you tried' I want the whole car!
Event work is tough. It's one shot and if you blow it, you better figure out why and never do it again or get out of the business.
It's harsh but, that's business.
GL
: A videographer acquaintence of mine (no, it wasn't ME this happened to!) recently was contracted to perfom a 1-camera ceremony where he would be stationed in the back (center aisle) of the church. (Church restrictions, etc, etc) He hooked the Groom up with a wireless lavalier mic, which he tested prior to the ceremony & it worked fine. When it came time for the vows, he switched over to use the wireless mic - he had been using the camera mic - , but it suffered from some bad "in & out" interference. He tried to fix the problem, but had to bail out and succumb to using the camera mic. Consequently, about 20 seconds of the vows are shot or otherwise unusable. (What I think happened was that he was so far back in the church that he was just out of range. Hindsight being 20/20, I can think of a couple of things that he could have done. First - have someone help him test the mic from the approximate place that the Groom was to stand with the videographer in the back of churchchecking the signal quality and to test the range. Or, if he had thought on his feet and been willing to bend the rules and perhaps come forward a bit down the center aisle to get closer to the area where the vows were taking place, the signal might have been a bit cleaner.)The rest of the job came out nice, though.
: He only charges about $700 for a single camera edit(ceremony & reception), which puts him in the to lower end of the fees in our area. The Bride - who is obviously and understandably upset -wants $150 back from him. Not sure where she came up with the number, but here is my question: What is fair in this - or a similar instance? On a related note, does anyone out there have anything in their contract about responsibility (or lack thereof) for "equipment failure" or "technical problems?" (I plan on showing Ed - that's the videographer's name - whatever replies I receive. thanks in advance for your help.)

X-Scott_Brooks
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Nov 14, 2002, 8:55 PM

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Re: The Bride wants HOW much of a refund? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes I do have something in the contract regarding equipment failure, but even so I would have gladly paid that amount. To be honest I probably would have returned the entire amount because if I made a mistake of that magnitude it would make me physically ill. What could possibly be more important the entire day than the exchange of vows?
I've never heard of someone purchasing a microphone that couldn't make it to the back of the church. I think Ed needs to take the proceeds from a couple of weddings and purchase himself a professional microphone. Then he probably needs to have his camera checked out. And I know I'm assuming here, but I'm guessing his camera has the 1/8th jack ... that means he needs to purchase a Studio One XLR adaptor for his new wireless system. And that means he'll need to purchase a shotgun for his second line of audio.
I take that back. After repairs and new purchases it's going to take more than a couple of weddings at $700 to get up to speed.

X-Crystal
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Nov 15, 2002, 12:34 AM

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Re: The Bride wants HOW much of a refund? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pay it and offer a little something extra like a free copy of the tape or something. People who are upset who feel you truly are sorry can give you some of the best references. On the other hand leave them upset and they will bad mouth you to every stranger and friend they meet.
: A videographer acquaintence of mine (no, it wasn't ME this happened to!) recently was contracted to perfom a 1-camera ceremony where he would be stationed in the back (center aisle) of the church. (Church restrictions, etc, etc) He hooked the Groom up with a wireless lavalier mic, which he tested prior to the ceremony & it worked fine. When it came time for the vows, he switched over to use the wireless mic - he had been using the camera mic - , but it suffered from some bad "in & out" interference. He tried to fix the problem, but had to bail out and succumb to using the camera mic. Consequently, about 20 seconds of the vows are shot or otherwise unusable. (What I think happened was that he was so far back in the church that he was just out of range. Hindsight being 20/20, I can think of a couple of things that he could have done. First - have someone help him test the mic from the approximate place that the Groom was to stand with the videographer in the back of churchchecking the signal quality and to test the range. Or, if he had thought on his feet and been willing to bend the rules and perhaps come forward a bit down the center aisle to get closer to the area where the vows were taking place, the signal might have been a bit cleaner.)The rest of the job came out nice, though.
: He only charges about $700 for a single camera edit(ceremony & reception), which puts him in the to lower end of the fees in our area. The Bride - who is obviously and understandably upset -wants $150 back from him. Not sure where she came up with the number, but here is my question: What is fair in this - or a similar instance? On a related note, does anyone out there have anything in their contract about responsibility (or lack thereof) for "equipment failure" or "technical problems?" (I plan on showing Ed - that's the videographer's name - whatever replies I receive. thanks in advance for your help.)

X-Paul_Hackett
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Nov 15, 2002, 12:39 AM

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Here's a suggestion [In reply to]	Can't Post

Paying the $150 is certainly the simplest way out..but...that still doesn't get the vows on the tape. What I'd suggest is have the B & G come into his studio and do a re-read of the vows as well.
Unfortunately I have had to do this once when a battery faild after half an hours use of what should have been two hours with half a line of the Bride to go, so I made sure to shoot some nice cutaway's of the parents, explained to the bride what happened and had her come in and read them again to tape. Edited together it looked and sounded like all original footage.
Let them watch the footage first to get the timing and lip sync right and if need be use some cutaways too.
Cheers...Paul.

X-Eric
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Nov 15, 2002, 12:39 AM

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Re: This is a good reason.... [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is a good reason why wedding video gets such a bad rap from brides! I'm speaking in general terms (nothing against Ed)
Everyone thinks they can go to Bestbuy, get a camcorder, buy a computer with a video editing program, and start a wedding video business. They turn the camera on, press the record button, and point the camera towards the bride!
Nothing could be further from the truth! No wonder why brides think wedding video is so bad (and why they don't think of it any higher than just an Uncle Bob video!) Anytime Ed's bride hears someone else talk about getting a wedding video... guess what story she is going to tell?? Bad news always spreads faster than good news!
Any business takes talent, skills, knowledge, experience, etc. If people want to start their own wedding video business, why not offer to help a local professional videographer? Learn from them... offer to help out whenever you can... ask questions... try to figure out why they do what they do and how they do it!
Some people probably don't have this luxury of learning from other people but there are plenty of other ways to learn!
People who get started in wedding photography don't just buy a 35mm camera and start shooting weddings! Most of the time they apprentice and work their way into becoming a wedding photographer with some experience first.
Here are some ideas to help Ed next time. Maybe this a just a one time bad incident... maybe this happens to Ed all the time... who knows?? If Ed wants to charge money for weddings he should treat it as such and take it seriously and start learning how to really use his equipment and learn how to shoot weddings!
1. Know how to use your equipment, learn all the controls, and know the limitations of your equipment.
2. Have backups for everything! Have backups for everything!
3. Test all equipment before going to a shoot.
4. Record 10 seconds at the beginning of each tape and playback to make sure the tape is good and the camera is recording OK.
5. Test all audio equipment on site and make sure audio levels are OK (in the their final postions.)
6. Check all camera positions for potential problems (this includes audio and video).

I'm sure there are other ideas to help Ed and hopefully people will list those ideas...
And last of all... ED BUY A MINIDISC RECORDER FOR BACKUP AUDIO!
C'mon these things are less than $200 and just good backup insurance!
I don't feel sorry for these low budget brides anymore... she got exactly what she wanted... a $700 video. I think Ed got off easy for making such a huge mistake. If it went to court he would be giving back a lot more than $150!
Eric
PS. Joe maybe you can offer to help Ed out and let him assist you on a couple of weddings?? You get some free help and he gets some experience and hopefully learns to become a better videographer...
I don't think you have to worry about competition since it sounds like you guys are in different price categories.

X-Pete_Lombardo
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Nov 15, 2002, 9:35 AM

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Re: This is a good reason.... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Eric:
Maybe you need to relax a little. The guy had interference in his wireless mike. Interference. It happens. According to you, guys like Ed are what's wrong with the world. Next you'll blame him for world hunger. You don't think "professionals" ever get interference on a microphone? As far as backup microphones are concerned, a back-up wireless mic does you no good once the vows have started. Now granted, there should be at least one other audio source going at all times, and Joe didn't specify whether there was or not, but lighten up a little.
You're making money, Joe's making money, I'm making money, Ed's making money...and giving it back. Let's all love each other.
And by the way, lay off Uncle Bob. There may be a society of dry cleaners out there that laugh about "Uncle Eric" trying to wash his own laundry. Know what I mean?
Pete Lombardo
Limelight Video Productions
Medford, NY

X-Gary_Cox
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Nov 15, 2002, 12:26 PM

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Re: The Bride wants HOW much of a refund? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't do 1 camera shoots, minimum of 2 cameras through a mixer. However, I know many vidographers who do an excellent job using just 1 camera.
I often run backup tapes, depending on the package. If I'm recording directly to the computer I also run a S-VHS backup tape at the same time. I also run an audio tape and on the premium packages I run backups in all 3 camera's, a audio tape backup, S-VHS backup with the computer being the primary. My camera's go through a mixer so I don't need tapes in each camera but run them as a backup as they pick up sound and video as you never know when you might need to splice something in.
I would probably discount the package more than $150 if not give it free because of the problem. It's just good business. I would do what someone else suggested re-do the vows although if I know it is a problem at the service, afterwards I would ask the preacher and bride and groom to do it again for me while there and spice it in...
I also use Samson UM32 wireless diversity (switches channels if one channel becomes noisy) microphones to minimize interference while also taping into the house sound system as another sound source.
... Gary
: A videographer acquaintence of mine (no, it wasn't ME this happened to!) recently was contracted to perfom a 1-camera ceremony where he would be stationed in the back (center aisle) of the church. (Church restrictions, etc, etc) He hooked the Groom up with a wireless lavalier mic, which he tested prior to the ceremony & it worked fine. When it came time for the vows, he switched over to use the wireless mic - he had been using the camera mic - , but it suffered from some bad "in & out" interference. He tried to fix the problem, but had to bail out and succumb to using the camera mic. Consequently, about 20 seconds of the vows are shot or otherwise unusable. (What I think happened was that he was so far back in the church that he was just out of range. Hindsight being 20/20, I can think of a couple of things that he could have done. First - have someone help him test the mic from the approximate place that the Groom was to stand with the videographer in the back of churchchecking the signal quality and to test the range. Or, if he had thought on his feet and been willing to bend the rules and perhaps come forward a bit down the center aisle to get closer to the area where the vows were taking place, the signal might have been a bit cleaner.)The rest of the job came out nice, though.
: He only charges about $700 for a single camera edit(ceremony & reception), which puts him in the to lower end of the fees in our area. The Bride - who is obviously and understandably upset -wants $150 back from him. Not sure where she came up with the number, but here is my question: What is fair in this - or a similar instance? On a related note, does anyone out there have anything in their contract about responsibility (or lack thereof) for "equipment failure" or "technical problems?" (I plan on showing Ed - that's the videographer's name - whatever replies I receive. thanks in advance for your help.)

X-Eric
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Nov 15, 2002, 1:34 PM

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Re: I offered ways to help in the future... [In reply to]	Can't Post

["Maybe you need to relax a little."]
Relax?? Why? It could have easily been avoided with a little preparation! You see that's the difference between professionals and people who have the "Oh well... it happens (attitude)"
I offered some ways for Ed to avoid this situation in the future. I was only trying to help raise the bar and help our industry get the respect it deserves. What did you offer?

["The guy had interference in his wireless mike. Interference. It happens. You don't think "professionals" ever get interference on a microphone?"]
So you think it's OK to give a bride a product with faulty audio?? Do you tell your brides, "Some of your vows are missing... I had interference and these things happen. It's not my fault."
A person who takes this profession seriously would try to prepare and avoid things like this happening. You can't prevent everything but this could have been easily avoided IMO.

[As far as backup microphones are concerned, a back-up wireless mic does you no good once the vows have started.]
That's the great thing about MD recorders. They are very small and not prone to interference problems of wireless mics. Ed's $150 refund almost pays for one!

[And by the way, lay off Uncle Bob. There may be a society of dry cleaners out there that laugh about "Uncle Eric" trying to wash his own laundry. Know what I mean?]
Fair enough... Call them Uncle Eric videographers! I've got thick skin ;-) The point is that our industry is still early in it's growth and they ARE hurting our industry and the brides are the ones suffering because of it. There will be a time when brides recognize a difference. Until then, I will try to help the Uncle Eric's become better videographers and raise the bar of our industry ;-)
Eric Noble

[: Pete Lombardo
: Limelight Video Productions
: Medford, NY]