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Home : Video University Forums : AVCHD formerly HDV :

FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter...

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FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter...
Here's my situation:

I shoot weddings with a VX2000, widescreen mode, and a WA adapter (I only take it off during ceremonies if shooting at a distance).
I really like the combination of the widescreen mode+WA adapter.

Does the FX1/Z1 actually have a wider image than a VX2000? (Yes, I'm aware that its a WIDESCREEN camera, but I think you know what I'm asking!Tongue)

Just wondering if I can get by without a WA adapter. My friend says his FX1 does not zoom in as close as his VX2000 did from the same distance, but that's no problem for me if I can use it in crowded hotel rooms and reception halls without having to mess with taking a WA adapter on and off.

Does this question make any sense? I swear, my wife hasn't been letting me drink today! Sly
Hierarchy Media
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Re: [RustyB] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
I couldn't say for sure, but I'd suspect that the FX1 will in fact capture a wider image than the VX2000 for the same focal length setting. I know my Canon GL1/GL2 don't actually capture a wider image when set in the "widescreen" mode, but the FX1 has a nice, true widescreen image. If the VX2000 works the same way as the Canons, you should see the same difference.
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Re: [RustyB] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
The focal length of the FX1/Z1 is 4.5mm to 54mm, (35mm equivalent: 32.5mm to 390mm). Thanks to DSE for this info!

The focal length of the VX2100/PD-170 is 6mm to 72mm. Both camcorders have 1/3" chips, so it should be an apples to apples comparison. This would indicate that the HDV units are a little wider, but have considerably less telephoto range than the DV models.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions
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Re: [videobear] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to

In Reply To
The focal length of the FX1/Z1 is 4.5mm to 54mm, (35mm equivalent: 32.5mm to 390mm). Thanks to DSE for this info!

The focal length of the VX2100/PD-170 is 6mm to 72mm. Both camcorders have 1/3" chips, so it should be an apples to apples comparison. This would indicate that the HDV units are a little wider, but have considerably less telephoto range than the DV models.



Thanks Bear, that's the exact numbers I was looking for! Smile
Hierarchy Media
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Re: [RustyB] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Hi Rusty,

We did some comparaisons when filming tests last week.
We were filming a Bar Mitzva with two PD150 but we took along a borrowed ZI to shoot some parallel low light shots to start our learning curve.

Re zoom and WA

The Z1 is the equivalent in width to a PD150 with Century WA adapter, which is fine BUT bearing in mind that it is 16/9 you are loosing picture hight compared to the PD150 4/3. This can be a problem for instance if you are preceding the bride down the aisle, you will need to be further back.

I am about to order 2 Z1's to equip one of our teams so I guess that to be sure I will fit one of them with the new Century WA lens for this camera. In particular for the camera which will be on the Glidecam. By the way we did some Glidecam shots at the Bar Mitzva, we put extra weights on the Glidecam 2000 to get good balance, it was hard work on the arm (first event of the season so the arm was out of practice! ) but the images were beautiful. The extra weight gives smoother movement and providing that you don't go for fast eratic movement there are no mpeg artifacts.

The only mpeg artifacts I saw on the rushes was occaisionally visible on the very fast dancing where the boys (and men) spin round in circles but it looks as if you blurred it deliberately as an 'artistic decision' and not a tech fault ! !

RE Low light:

We have not had time to derush the PD150 cassettes yet for true comparaison but what I did notice in a previous test before the shoot is that the final images are much closer to one another than the images in the camera lcd would suggest. PD150 looks very contrasty and saturated more so than reality whereas the Z1 lcd looks pale and undersaturated compared with the final image.

During filming at the very low light venue the PD150 was at 9 db gain whereas the Z1 was at 18 db. The Z1 images on our monitor show negligible trace of noise and look very clean, probably cleaner than the PD150 at 9 db !

We filmed in HDV but output in DV 4/3 from the camera to AVID as the PD 150 footage for the customer is in 4/3.

Asap I will put up some screen caps for comparaison and later (much) some files.

But initial impressions are that in practice low light is NOT a problem and that he Z1 images have better latitude and look real nice.

Brian
Emotion Filmworks
Paris France
http://www.emotionfilmworks.com

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Re: [Brian Coe] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Excellent real-world comparison Brian, thank you for taking the time to share your findings!

Matt Jeppsen
www.FreshDV.com
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Re: [Brian Coe] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Great write-up Brian! I love reading about real-world experience, and not just what the skeptics who've never used one have to say.

Very nice to hear about that it's comparable to a wide-angle lens on a PD150 in terms of width. I shoot in 16:9 mode on my VX2000 with a WA adapter on, so I'm used to losing the top and bottom of the picture anyway, yet gaining more on the sides because of the adapter, so I'm guessing framing will be very similar.

From what I've heard, a telephoto adapter might be my first accessory for this camera, instead of a WA adpater! Tongue

Thanks Brian,
Hierarchy Media
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Re: [RustyB] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Hi Rusty

I am not so convinced that you would require a tele adapter for weddings but if you are shooting other events , yes I think it would be a good idea.

We have never invested in tele adapter for the PD150 as for many of our "pro" shoots we use rented DSR570's which come equiped with 19 x lenses with a doubler, perfect for close ups of sport events or artists on stage.


Since my last post , I have just decided to use the Z1 for a corporate maketing film that we are to film late March. We had budgeted to use the Panasonic Varicam in HD but I don't see why we can't use the Z1. This a shoot under full lighting conditions where we can control everything (hopefully) so it should be a good test of what the camera is capable of.

Delivery will not be a problem as it will be a Windows Media CD.
I will post some images in April after the shoot.


Brian
Emotion Filmworks
Paris France
http://www.emotionfilmworks.com
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Re: [Brian Coe] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Hi Brian:

Could you keep us informed as to the results you would get shooting that corporate project with the Z1. Would be to hear your feedback on the performance of that camera in a real work situation specially when you had initially considered shooting with the Varicam. Cheers.


In Reply To
Hi Rusty

I am not so convinced that you would require a tele adapter for weddings but if you are shooting other events , yes I think it would be a good idea.

We have never invested in tele adapter for the PD150 as for many of our "pro" shoots we use rented DSR570's which come equiped with 19 x lenses with a doubler, perfect for close ups of sport events or artists on stage.


Since my last post , I have just decided to use the Z1 for a corporate maketing film that we are to film late March. We had budgeted to use the Panasonic Varicam in HD but I don't see why we can't use the Z1. This a shoot under full lighting conditions where we can control everything (hopefully) so it should be a good test of what the camera is capable of.

Delivery will not be a problem as it will be a Windows Media CD.
I will post some images in April after the shoot.


Brian

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Re: [DVman] FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter... In reply to
Ok no problem . I will post some screen grabs when we have them

It looks like we will be shooting end March but date not yet fixed, as the script is not yet final approved.

Within the framework of what we have to shoot, I can see anything that would be "limit" with the Z1 so its an easy economic decision to make.

Let's hope that I am not proved wrong ! !
Anyway we will do some more Z1 tests on site several days before the actual shoot so its not too late to go back to Varicam if necessary.

Brian
Emotion Filmworks
Paris France
http://www.emotionfilmworks.com
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FX1/Z1 - is the image "wider" than a VX2000; trying to figure if I will need a $400 WA adapter...